Many people read my posts and directly or silently pose a common “reactive” question:
“Cool story, bro. But what is the solution?”
My short answer: there isn’t a solution, at least not a mathematical one.
Let’s start with the dating drama presented 1000s of times on this site.
In short, unless you can figure out how to turn from a 5/10 into a literal 9/10 or become ultra-phucking rich, you can’t brute-force your way out of the “average dude misery”.
You will be subject to consistent ghosting, flaking, and emotional (and monetary) exploitation.
But even if you rank high in terms of bones and coins, you are still a serf on the plantation.
You are simply a unit that satisfies the criteria (a stronger/preferred slave), or as I put it in the previous article, a poker player who got a good hand in a rigged casino.
You are still subject to the same forces, just sitting at the better end of the table (for now), yet still slaving; still potentially a victim who can lose everything in a lawsuit due to the corrupt laws.
It’s somewhat of a lose and a less-lose-but-still lose situation.
So, how can you fight this?
Simple. You can’t.
Why?
You don’t have 2 things:
- The needed conditions for manifesting your desired outcome.
- Leverage to create those conditions.
It’s a closed system, and our levers are short.
The virus is already in the mitochondria of the societal body. You can’t extract it. It’s akin to expecting people to stop using their smartphones. It’s not happening.
Here are the main problems:
1/ The Internet (dating apps, social media) – the prime weapons of hypergamy
2/ The court laws (laws cater to women because when you control the woman, you control the man, the kids, and the narrative).
3/ Philosophical mindset/worldview – entirely made by poisonous, degenerate media
4/ Governmental influence and support of the shattered family unit (divide and conquer strategy supported by the economic overlords that benefits them and kills us)
5/ A low IQ mentality reigns supreme everywhere you look (#TikTok_Brain)
6/ Scams (e.g., Tate-style universities) promoting fantasies based on mental exploitation and guilt (e.g., You are simply not working hard enough, and that’s why you suck.)
The list is 40 meters long.
Things will change in the future. The wheel never stops turning, but there’s a problem.
Our lives are FINITE and the virus-ending processes are SLOW….MEGA SLOW.
All the problems that we have now were present back in 2012. And will probably be present in 2032 as well.
What has changed in those 13 years?
Absolutely nothing, at least in a positive direction.
Things are worse…as expected. And as they say, things will get a lot worse before they get better.
Don’t be naive. Don’t fall for the “women like older men” MGTOW scam either.
Upon activating a bit of brain, it becomes obvious that in 90% of the cases, the old men with young wives are ultra-rich and/or look a lot younger for their age. The average 50-year-old who makes a living replacing tires won’t be seen with a hot 20-year-old.
Also, getting rich is HARD and requires a lot of work and luck. If it wasn’t, well, it would mean nothing.
And money CAN BE LOST at any point. One wrong decision on your part or a governmental slip (e.g., your corrupt country “leaders” doing something stupid) and it’s GG, no re.
I’m sorry, but I am also real.
You can certainly try to “max out” on various points, but your success will be limited simply because the forces against you are TOO stronkkkk.
Let me give you a brutal and maybe a bit weird example, but valid nonetheless.
I am a little over 6 feet tall. This height makes me “ok” for at least 99% of women out there. (Not bragging).
Yet I still struggle as I’ve presented in 100s of posts.
Meanwhile, there are shorter man who BREAK their legs on purpose in Turkey (to save money) and then slowly spread the bones apart every day so that their legs become longer. It’s called leg lengthening. It was a niche practice, but it’s a lot more mainstream now.
Needless to say, the procedure is not safe (how can it possibly be), and it takes years to recover. And some people never do. But even if you recover, at the very least, you are altering the proportions of your body and creating a source of pain in the future.
Imagine going through all of this to have my faith regardless of your new length?
Of course, some people will say that men are “doing it for themselves”.
Nonsense.
It’s done for women. It’s done to satisfy their criteria and no longer be called “short king” or some other bullshit.
That’s the reality of life.
If you are 5’2″ and I teleport you to a deserted island with a clinic that would stretch your legs for free, but women will never see your new height, would you still do it, bro?
Ofc, not.
Money, Society, Governments
All governments are corrupt. That’s the case whether you are in the EU, the US, or some wasteland.
The governments ALWAYS try to enslave people and turn them into a kettle. They do to us what we do to animals. They see you as a unit for extraction.
Think.
Back in the day, most animals were raised in non-commercial farms. The chickens were free to explore; the cows ate “good grass”…etc.
Now? The chickens are in cages that don’t even allow them to move.
Governments are doing the same to us.
Back in the day, people could survive on basic wages, buy a house, get married, etc. Today, you have to work 100 hours, and still you don’t own anything.
Very few people can outright buy a house, a new car, etc. Thus, debt reigns supreme.
If you think about it, everything is now following the subscription model – from houses to phones to even software.
Why? Because that way, they own you forever.
And by the way, they don’t even expect you to pay your debt.
Their goal is simply to have rights over you for as long as you can work. In other words, via the subscription model, they own your vital juice FOR LIFE.
Money, a virtual concept at its heart, is not even on the main list from the perspective of the so-called “elite”.
They don’t want your money. They want your life/time.
You Want What They Tell You To Want
People are retards. They think the new concepts are new and the result of some mental evolution. Well, it’s not at all like that.
It’s all propaganda.
It’s not new. It’s not better. It’s what they want you to think.
The modern living situation in all of its aspects is not the outcome of some awakening. It’s the result of brainwashing.
Mass Inertia vs. The Individual
There is this thing called mass inertia, which refers to the direction where the masses are going and the mindset that comes with it.
A simple example would be socialism. In the Soviet Union, people were told a mixture of lies and truths about the West. The main narrative was that the West is a corrupt cesspool (the irony here is that it has become a lot worse since those times).
People didn’t fully believe in that concept, as many were trying to leave the Soviet Union to get a “better life”.
However, virtually everyone maintained and followed the mass inertia with action or INACTION (if you keep quiet, you are still helping the status quo).
The same applies to Western propaganda. Westerners were told that the Soviet people were some brainless monkeys on the verge of collapse.
The goal – creating clashing mass inertias to maintain the good cop/ bad cop narrative and keep people digging.
Eventually, the Soviet Union fell not because it didn’t have money. It was a self-sustaining system and could have continued for many decades.
It didn’t fall because the Eastern bloc suddenly decided to reclaim its right to Western toys either.
It didn’t fall because people there got smarter or dumber.
It fell because those who had THE LEVERS to change the mass inertia’s direction wanted to.
You could ask any person who’s witnessed the fall. NONE OF THEM expected it. Everyone believed it would go on forever.
The point is this: you can’t EFFECTIVELY fight mass inertia. You just can’t do it. Even when you think you are fighting it, it still owns you and lets you think you are in charge when, in reality, you are just a passenger, once again.
The same applies to the current situation.
People WRONGFULLY believe that the following is their choice:
- Social media lifestyle
- Hook-up culture
- Capitalism
- Pointless travel
- Debt
- Entrepreneurship
- Screen addiction
- Podcast-based mental masturbation
- Delayed marriages
- No kids or (later in life)
None of this is YOUR choice.
Evidence?
Just go back in time when some of those elements had a different spin or didn’t even exist.
Your grandfather got married at 19 and had 2 kids by the time he was 22, not because he was smarter than you. It was just the MASS INERTIA. And if you were born in 44, you would’ve had a similar life.
Choices? That’s cute.
The False Idea That There Is Always a Solution
Do you remember being a kid? When every story had a happy ending? When every tear could be wiped away with a smile, a warm voice, a soft toy, as if the world had some secret order to it?
Well, bro.
The world lied. Hard.
Some problems? They don’t have a fix. Not a real one. Not the kind that actually changes the outcome. They just move the pain from the front yard to the basement, stuff it in boxes and tell you: “Look, you’re better now.”
You’re not. You’re just rearranged.
And the thing is — they told you that if you worked hard enough, if you played nice, thought positive, drank enough green juice, and did your squats, life would bend in your favor.
That’s the poison. The idea that the world is a vending machine: put in goodness, get out gold.
Not the case, first world brahs.
Sometimes you press every damn button and still get nothing. Sometimes you give your all, and it still goes sideways.
And for the sensitive souls…well, this truth
It shatters something. Because they were taught the world was just misunderstood,
not merciless. They were taught that if you just loved hard enough, everything would click into place.
Nope.
Some things will scratch at your ribs forever.
Some questions will never get answered.
Some chapters will never resolve.
And even if you do stumble on some “solution”, it doesn’t undo the damage. It just teaches you how to walk with a limp and still make it to the corner store before it closes.
You keep going, not because the light returned but because you got used to the dark.
Nothing you write is incorrect .
Absolute truth as far as I’m concerned.
For the last several years I’ve been silently asking myself what’s the solution.
As a man all I can do is put my faith in GOD.
We as a society look like miserable zombies now.
Fantastic article.
Yes, Don. The world is a broken place and it, along with the humans in it, need healing. This is the solution, but you have to go through things, and say what you want, the reality is that this is God’s providence and plan. I’ll write more lower, and I agree mostly with Truth Seeker, but there are nuances among even all the inertia, population effects, and determinist ideas he has. Keep trucking.
Please buddy leave GOD aside. God is the essence of life, spirit. And is not a fking person who cares about your joys and pains. God helps who helps himself they say. Religions are a cultural product made by the Elite to keep the cattle quiet. Why would a benign God worried by its creatures made them full of passions, envys, angers, tiredness, cruelty towards other creatures?
And thats when NattyOrnot comes and tells you “there is no solution”. Besides being examples of life i see neither a solution. Humans are crooked and cannot do justice -nobody can-. Because equality of rights is just that, equality of rights, not spiritual justice.
Soviet Union fell just like Rome, to keep appearance of “human progress”, and because markets demanded it, it was a experiment, nothing really designed to endure. The Elite have the power, the knowledge, the tools, we cant do anything. We are born slaves of the global market, and we will die subject to this modern slavery, which doesnt allow us to develop artistically nor intellectually.
Life came to be enjoyed, and its becoming less and less enjoyable for first world fellas for some reason. The Elite will survive in their bunkers and the United Nations, will get BOFA as always, a well deserved Bofa for such crooked institution which push child pornography. History repeats again and again.
We should put our feets again the wall, saying “theres nothing to do” is part of the problem, Natty. There is always a way, one that doesnt involve slaves replacement. One that doesnt mean changing the base for the top like USRR did.
We must go back to the old Plato, everybody has to become a philosopher ready to govern over chaos at any moment, as Nietzsche would say -Our most legitimate needs-.
We are pure imagination, work on that language. And some day, we will see the light again.
***Mentally processing
According to the biblical story, slaves in Egypt barely had a roof over their heads and food. Four thousand years later, nothing has changed. You live in Egypt and Sodom.
And you also currently live in Cyberpunk 2077: a bad, corrupt, empty life with super-technology.
Where technology is somewhat cheaper than food.
Where tech corporations are more powerful than governments.
Where the integrated circuit defines the rules of the game—and all of this without you even realizing it.
“he whom defines his value on the shallow opinion of women deserves neither love nor peace”
It’s not about defining yourself based on their opinion. It’s about the chess moves that a man has in front of him to affect mass inertia.
I found my partner when I got out of my comfort zone by going out to social gatherings one to three times a week and stoping my online dating attempts. This may not work for everyone.
Communism fell because of economic principles not because those elites wanted to!!! Everything can continue forever you say……sure well not exactly because U.S. Government hasn’t been around for thousands of years! If your theory was true The Roman Empire wouldn’t collapse and so on and so forth! With your ignorant thesis you have thrown away the entire human history claiming everything happens because elites wanted it and so did The German Reich……Hitler lost because he wanted to or was told to…..Bravo!!! GENIUS!!!!
Not the case. It’s a common myth that the reasons were economical. They were not. And the Soviet Union was destroyed from the inside, not the outside.
Not defending the regime as it was pure slavery – just like all regimes – including capitalism. But I just can’t buy the lie.
All the countries from the Soviet Union had practically no debt and actual production compared to today.
Man, it’s getting harder to read your posts. These are not even posts anymore, are they? They look like a couple of notes of an angry redpiller after diving into the most corny redpill bullsit for a couple of months. What has happened to you? It’s a genuine question, as I don’t understand how did you come to the point that you are complaining so much. In the comment section of the previous post, couple of guys have made good assumptions about you. Shame you never answered to them
I’m obsessed with conspiracy. It’s pretty evident that everything tha affect us has been somehow manipulated to generate the outcomes. But the thing is, after a long research, I can’t still say who tf is behind the courtin. Who is pulling the strings. It’s all so confusing. And as you say, it seems there is no solution. That’s why I’m getting closer to Jesus than ever before. I think there is no escape in this life. Perhaps in the next
Wake up kid. We are the videogame of a vampyre of emotions (Blaise Pascal/Corey Taylor) Jesus is the worst jerk there is, he tortures and rapes kids to get their adenochrome. True world is Pleroma.
Good article. Agree strongly with the height analogy. I would actually say nowaday height is easily 80-90% of attraction in males. People are also getting a lot taller and its becoming harder and harder for shorter guys to succeed in anything.Ive got friends who are over 6 foot who i always remember listening to them in the car on the way somewhere. They were seated in the front and they both moaning about how at 6-0.5″ and 6-1.5″ that because the younger generations are now typical their height and well over getting attention from women is extremely difficult. It really irritates me when people either deny this or come out with nonsense along the lines of ‘Its not their height its their confidence’ or the absolute classic ‘they/you are allowing your height to destroy your life’. or similarly ‘its your choice to let it affect you’ its NOT their choice its other peoples choice! They are the ones denying them things based on something they have zero control over. Ive often heard people who are short say things like ‘Its never bothered me’ or ‘its never affected me’ this either delusion or denial or both! Its HAS affected them whether they like it or not and its was others decision to allow to affect them!. Ive worked in a number of really bad places throughout my life and one that has always struck me is how certain individuals seem to be in very high positions when they are quite clearly in way over their head and absolutely useless in the bargain its took me two seconds to work this out – they were all tall (or at least 90% were). I think if you apply occams razor to most situations in life you usually get the correct answer!
You’re completely wrong if you think height is the main factor for attracting females. It’s actually the face. Lots of tall men struggle with women simply because they are not attractive in the face.
No sorry im not! I spoke to two guys years ago who ran dating agencies and i asked what the main factors that determine success in dating in their experience. Both guys said ‘height for men weight for women’. I got told this repeatedly by women throughout my life or words to this effect ‘I like you and i find you handsome and your funny but you are just not tall enough for me’ These women would typically hook up with tall dudes with big fat guts. Most tall men ive struggle not because of their face but because they are extremely out of shape. Being overweight a bit wont hurt them as everyone is overweight nowadays but being extremely out of shape hurts them AND when you are fat it destroys your facial aesthetics to boot which doesnt help their situation. Most tall guys have gone through life getting stuff because they are tall so a lot of the time they dont have to develop other things (like physique) to help them, their height is usually enough but too many of them live the good life and ironically it hinders them even when they have an advantage. Women will say they are attracted to the face but they usually mean provided the height is there first. Its a ctually a pre requisite with most women a lot even dont really know they are doing it either its automatic.
I think those factors have been always the same. The difference is that, until the mid or late 2000s, just being at least 2 or 3 inches taller than her was enough for most women to consider you dating material, so even guys who were not average but not that short (around 5,8 ft) had a fairly good chance.
The mass adoption of social media since the 2010s and the retarded societal trends they promote took hypergamy off the charts. I find amusing how some women often use that focus of men on weight to justify their own warped dating criteria when they aren’t even comparable.
Except very rare cases, everyone can control their weight, and staying fit is often a strong indicator of positive personality traits (besides, most men just ask for their partner to not be blatantly overweight. They don’t expect her to have the body of a model).
The same cannot be said about height for obvious reasons. It cannot be changed (and if you try, the price to pay can be very high) and it is a poor indicator of things that truly make someone worth dating besides the primal physical attraction and the perceived capacity to “protect”.
While no one is entitled to be loved back or be seen sexually/romantically, that kind of discrimination based on things you cannot control is no less painful. I can get how many men who are victims of it become bitter and, in the worst case, followers of insane and harmful ideologies.
In the Hellenic states (which have no connection with the current Greeks), slaves were also teachers, doctors, actors, musicians… Their origin was not “urban” and they did not have the right to vote, and they were slaves regardless of their profession.
The USSR collapsed because the people wanted a comfortable life regardless of debts. They traded some freedom for debts. How much desire there was for the West, is shown by the fact that they bought chewed chewing gum. You literally spit it out and sell them the gum and they continue to chew it with pleasure. All data about the USSR is false because the USSR did not publish anything that did not benefit them. Also, all data from the USA and Europe is scam because it was made in such a way that it benefits them.
Behind the scenes, I would say that the global elite created the USSR, maintained it and decided when it would collapse. This is supported by the enormous aid that the USSR received from the USA in the 1920s, and especially aid during the war. The key moment is the creation of the atomic bomb. It was indeed impossible for the USSR to create the atomic bomb on its own, but the procedure for making it was smuggled from the USA to the USSR in order to prevent Patton and those madmen from dropping the bomb on Moscow.
Aleksandr, you are correct my friend. This is a great article that needs to be read by everyone, because it gets at the entirety of the situation, and the fact that generational and population effects control MOST of what you can or can’t do. The specifics and nuance I talked about that can allow people to break away REQUIRE another step (that is a bridge too far) that the system puts up as the final boss: the lawfare before the collapse. That’s why even if you are a 5%-er and have height, money, etc if you are rational, the divorce system and outs for women (the most irrational) create a major problem for you to willingly choose possibly MORE slavery (modern marriage). It is very crafty because Truth is absolutely right, by controlling women like the evil one did in approaching Eve, you easily control men. Get them to work during high value fertile years? Screw men. Less births and less well formed people to deal with, which means you can hook them on consumption easier since they won’t have parents or fathers to teach them about goodness, godly things, etc.
Truth is just setting the table for the bigger picture, which I’ve talked about before, that population booms and mass marketing with consumption and materialism does run the show. If we’re honest, 50% of young men have no shot. That’s in a society where people on average are fat, and women aren’t really young or attractive anymore. If you’re like me and have money, that is the small % of men who can break the chains and go overseas, possibly. But then that has tradeoffs and most won’t do it. It’s a very sticky situation because even if you believe in traditional things nothing about the society, or laws, is anymore. A successful man is not socially allowed to go with younger women in the USA/west because it is taboo and there is too much money. Parents and grandparents have money and the women are spoiled, so people don’t see the practical need. The problem is that they all ask, where are the good men? There are a lot, but we aren’t going to marry 30+ year old women. Why would we? Like I said, the only option is to go elsehwere, where you are actually needed or you can arbitrage certain factors.
Where Truth might be wrong is that the change in things happens dramatically, and FAST. That could be coming within 5-10 years easy (“reset”) and might even come with a die-off post covid and the injection stuff. The problem, as he states, is that that might not happen for another 20, and you only get a good 20 years as a man, so you have to make something happen, and quick, as very few things are under your control when propaganda is in the minds of most people, and nearly all women …
That parallel with Hellenic cultures is brutal. Many people of those professions are high earners nowadays, but still are fundamentally premium slaves as their freedom is extremely constrained by golden handcuffs (economical or political) and abysmal work-life balance (even if they have some free time for hobbies and vacations) because, ultimately, they are just a disposable asset for those who really hold the power.
I’m also convinced that many political entities and events of at least the last 3 centuries are more orchestrated behind the scenes by elites than what many people think (or want to admit). There’s nothing that helps to sustain a corrupt system better than a strong external enemy, and it is for the best interest of both parties to make sure that one doesn’t completely overpower the other. 1984 did a good job illustrating this.
Spot on, as usual, Jose. I’m a professional that is VERY aware or well acquainted with the “golden handcuff” phenomenon. There’s a reason why the passport bros or the PUA types and followers just after (2010s) always had the saying “Make $ in the first world, and fukk in the 3rd”. Most people are just high end wage slaves, if we are honest, and they want you on that treadmill (made sense if you married a girl in your early 20s and she was 20). Note that also, retirement $ is not available til 59.5, haha, so you’re on their grind til then!
You also are very insightful on the behind the scenes for centuries. Mostly because money as a technology has changed. This is actually why BTC is so important right now, too. It changes the game.
I mean if you’re legit 5’2 or have a deformity on your face that can be fixed with surgery I’d argue its not for women. Its for quality of life in general. People men and women are pretty mean to anyone that low on the bell curve in anything.
And you can see for yourself the difference it makes in a lot of people’s lives. It’s a fix that won’t work for everyone. For example, a guy with a chad face who breaks his legs twice goes from 5’2 to 5’9 = massive unimaginable change. Same is true for a guy who WOULD have a chad face except his chin is too recessed or whatever easy fix.
These solutions work VERY well for a very specific class of people. Mainly those held back by one obvious flaw.
And in that case even though those men will get a lot of women the change really is for them to have more of a normal life. Because a lot of other social benefits you aren’t considering accrue to them.
You seem aware of the fact that it has always been like this. The story of civilization is the story of mass slavery. Personal autonomy never was particularly high and the sad thing about now is that it likely is among the highest it has been. The difference is that we have access to so much information about how the world actually works. And literacy.
And for a growing class of people, there ARE solutions. In the past if you were a short Chad — you’re just short. Deformed nose on a perfect face — you’re fucked. Get sick and aren’t rich? Probably gonna die of some random disease or infection.
I also think your perspective is a bit warped because of the hoeflation that reached peak in the last 10 years from dating apps. But look at the future. AI is mainly going to displace women. Men are walking away from dating. The apps are crashing (the most people meet online canard hasnt been true for awhile now). Female AI companions and XXX content is going to gut the female sexuality economy as well (already is)..
Add to that the coming artificial wombs and synthetic gamates and who knows how it will be
Some interesting and fair observations here.
Height surgery can definitely improve the quality of life of an abnormally short guy (or woman) if done well, but there is always the significant risk of backfiring hard by leaving the patient with awkward mobility, even fully crippled. Therefore, the hypothetical benefits might not outweigh those dangers, especially if a man does it mainly with the expectation of becoming more attractive to women (which is the reason why truly most of them do it anyway). Mind that, like you point out in your example, a 5,2 ft guy could get at best to 5,9 ft with these procedures, which in most Western 1st World countries is no longer seen enough (in some it is even deemed as short) to stand out in the mainstream dating market (especially online) even if you have a good face and body shape.
Fully agree on the fact that, as bad and ridiculous these times are, past centuries were much worse and nowadays many people have options their ancestors could not even dream of to cope with the hardships of life.
I’ve been also noticing that sharp “great resign” in online dating (and even also more traditional forms of dating) in the latest years. Single men and women are not longer that rare in many 1st World countries and a lot of them are not interested in seeking a partner anymore.
The likely outlook of that divide looks depressing to me though. Even with dystopian “breakthroughs” like “AI GFs”, artificial wombs and synthetic gamates I don’t think we will avoid the consequences of such a demographic decline. We can already see some glimpses of it in countries like Japan.
breaking my legs two times (spending a fortune and risking not being able to walk normally ever again) just for some bullshit societal points…
yeah
Sorry. I would not recommend.
I would have second thoughts too. In my youth, I broke my tibia in sports. It was fixed by screws and a plate. My body rejected those somehow, so the surgery wound didn’t fully close at all. It also got infected and in the end they had to take the screws and the plate off earlier than it was supposed to. Because of the infections and all that stuff, the wound healed so that the skin / scar tissue attached straight to the bone / tibia, and the skin there wasn’t able to move at all anymore. Because of that, I had to go through a couple of surgeries, the last one being a plastic surgery where they cut skin off from the bone.
This was decades ago, and the leg has bothered me every day since then. I can feel the difference in the bone where the screws were, and the skin isn’t what it’s supposed to be. I also lost nerves and my leg doesn’t feel some of the things it should feel. Oh yeah, the tibia fractured from a growth plate or something like that, don’t know the exact term. But because of that, my leg got a bit fucked, so that when it still grew, it grew in a corckscrew manner. I later went to the same surgeon who operated me initially, and he said that at some point the leg will probably have to be straightened and the way to do it is that they cut the bone and reattach it in a different position.
Of course on top of these things, there was a shit ton of pain, tears, sweat and blood that went through to rehab processes where I learned to walk again.
As a funny sidenote, I had a crazy dream last night. I was in Russia in a crowded train station. Then Truth called me and we had a long and nice talk. Truth told me that he has some kind of a project where he needs people / employees. And I of course accepted the challenge. Truth, you really sounded like a very nice person, so if you ever need people for your projects, I’m readily available 😀. And no, I don’t have any clue why I was in Russia.
I agree that going from 5-2 to 5-9 would be life changing sadly this surgery is very dangerous and not accurately portrayed online. The effects of it are rarely discussed or simply swept under the carpet. This surgery exploits extremely desperate people who are looking for a solution to their problem which affects them daily and which society does not take seriously when it is addressed. Adding 7″ to your legs will cripple you no if no buts or maybes! Muscles do not stretch, you can stretch bones forever but not muscles and nerves.Streching the tibia puts the knee and ankle under tremendous pressure this very quickly puts the mobility of joints at risk. You need mobile joints to keep them safe and to be able to exercise and walk properly. This surgery directly affects these things. Lenghtneing the femur puts the hip and knee under extreme pressure. If you lengthen both segments of the body you are going to get double the stress on the knees this will cause massive issues in the future for you (and the close future by that). People who lengthen their femurs often report painful knees. sore hips and a sore back from doing this surgery.Doctors in these countries they go to NEVER tell them about this! i wonder why!. They have even convinced themselves on these leg lengthening chat forums that limb lengthening is ‘far safer’ than HGH treatment. They are absolutely deluded and dangerous.
A person going from 5-2 to 5-9 and maintaining normal body function is one thing but doing it through limb lengthening will open up doors to a whole new level of problems. 5-9 and crippled or moving like a snail will not impress any women regardless of the height gain. Tbh you need to be a minimum of 5-11 or more or so to be relatively successful anyway nowadays. The criteria has completely changed and the standards have gone up to delusional levels!
Its not just stuff like that people are deluded about. I heard some dimwit the other days saying naturals nowadays can have physiques like the 1980 Olympia competitors due to the training and supplements available today! Folk nowadays are deluded about how far weve progressed.
Seen another thing a few years ago where a 15 year old kid believes his under 18s rugby school side would beat the 1993 New Zealand All Blacks rugby team because apparently today the ‘modern game’ has completely changed. Delusional in the extreme
Exactly. It’s not just crazy expensive, but the risks and potential side effects of that kind of procedures are not a joke. Sams just offered a good testimonial of what one can expect from them (and his case was an actual intervention for a nasty sports injury, not some cosmetic whim).
If you are too insecure about your height but are close enough to 6 ft (5.9 to 5,11) shoe insoles and even ankle implants (which are also expensive, but much cheaper than leg surgery) are better and safer options to artificially increase your height to at least a couple of additional inches. At that level the height difference with and without shoes is so subtle that people won’t be able to tell you are “cheating” unless they take a very close look.
In any case, I think the best solution is to eventually learn to not give a f*** about what others think about your height… especially women who would’ve been a bad match anyway.
Yep, expecting getting money, being taller, having more confidence, having an more attractive body and face DOES NOT GIVE YOU 100% CHANCE TO GET THE BABE! If you are a 1/10 looking guy, their is still a chance you can get a 10/10 girl. If you tell yourself you don’t have a chance you will never know what your missing out on. I did this till I was 30yrs old and yea, it sucked.
Yeah it’s not like it’s some radical wild experimental procedure. Been around for nearly a century. Lots of research done on the effects, the risks etc. It’s not a particularly risky surgery. Not that there are no risks but the constant “zomg ill be crippled” is nonsense.
Further, a short man getting to average height isnt just doing it for women. Regardless of face, the amount of height discrimination very short men face is something the proprietor or the detractors have never had to face and so don’t even comprehend. Like if it was such a nothing burger why would so much research demonstrate it absolutely does have major positive impacts on the lives of men?
Regarding dating, a lot of people here really don’t seem to be able to separate internet fiction from real life fact. The average male height in the US is a bit under 5’10 yet the average male height on dating apps is somehow 6’1.
Ive legitimately never seen a decent looking guy average height or above struggle to get women.
Again for dating these procedures do work wonders for men who have ONE overriding flaw.
Its just sad that there’s a lot of misinformation thrown out there about it and all other cosmetic improvements.
Just because something has been around for a long time does not mean it is safe! And yes it is an extremely risky surgery maybe not life threatening level of risk but there are a number of serious long term problems that this surgery can create. Bone pain, extremely tight muscles, nerve damage, joint contractures, damaged muscles, hip, knee and ankle are common. Premature arthritis is a huge problem as well. Research is not reliable as they may cherry pick the people or ask people who are simply not telling them the truth.
Its just sad that there’s a lot of misinformation thrown out there about it and all other cosmetic improvements. – This surgery is not a face lift, a tummy tuck or rhinoplasty this is on another level! its like comparing a hand grenade with a nuclear bomb!
The people who do this surgery may report positive impacts on their life depending on what they are into. If you are someone who does not use your body in any physical way (you dont exercise or rely on your legs for work) then go for it. But if not you should stay well clear of this surgery. Even if it does sort out your height concerns (and i appreciate height discrimination is VERY real) it will open up a door to a whole new level of problems. I should know ive done it!!!!
The lenghtening amounts you see online are fantasy land, people who have genuinely done these lengths have crippled themselves. Nonsense online tells you that if you do 5cms you will be completely fine! Most of these ‘diaries’ you see are often fake and are written by doctors at the hospitals. There are even people on youtube claiming to have had it done when they havent who are simply salespeople getting paid commission for getting people to sign up to it.
Like i say ive done this surgery and i cannot squat 560lbs x 5 reps anymore! So be warned!! And think very very carefully before you act. I also keep in contact with other guys who were at the hospital i was in one of which was also into bodybuilding and he cant put his heels on the ground his muscles are so tight and his leg training days are over!!. Another guy believe it or not was actually there to get 3cms of bone removed as his muscles were so tight he could move his ankles. Running was impossible and his had severe tendonitis/tendonosis in his muscles.
I guarantee you no one on the planet wanted to be taller more than me and i regret doing this surgery! Before i left i was contemplating suicide over my height so it wasnt a decision i made lightly.
As for average height it depends on the generation you are talking about. Id say most people born after 1990 are roughly 6 foot on average. Yes if you take into consideration older generations that brings the average down.
Didn’t know you actually went through this kind of procedure. Now your perspective and concerns are even more valuable than before IMO.
Besides the generation, the average height also depends a lot of the country and region you are talking about. In most of Europe I think the average for young men (born in late 90s or early 2000s) is around 6ft too. In some (like Escandinavian countries) 6ft it’s probably becoming low mid now. I traveled to Sweden recently and I was impressed by the fact that a lot of men are not only quite tall, but physically fit. I don’t know decades ago, but a guy like Dolph Lundgren (without the roids of course) is not that uncommon there anymore.
Men who are around the “official” average (between 5,9 and 5,10) of most of these countries obviously have a better chance at dating than plain short ones, but it can’t be denied that it’s becoming increasingly hard for them as societal standards become more and more ridiculous. You can see even average height men getting mocked by women for being too “short” in some recent English speaking TV series and movies. You can dismiss it as silly nonsense because they are just fiction, but fiction can easily mold views that later become the new intended standard.
It can easily be denied that in real life it isn’t changing much. Again, the real life US male YOUNG height remains a tad under 5’10 yet the average height of men on dating apps is listed as 6’1. HMMMM.
Critical thinking is vital. There was a guy who went out recently. He’d stop women and then he pulled out a tape measure and told them to stop it at their ideal height. Then when they stopped it he asked them their preferred height to date and they’d all say what you’d expect. The revealed height the majority of the time was like 5’8-5’9.
There are decades worth of studies. You’re just fear mongering. Yeah sure bro, all are cherry picked. The actual incidence rates (pretty low) are all faked.
Like this space is cool for the truth bombs but has a real crabs in a bucket mentality about life.
I know someone who did this surgery. This was the short guy I referenced who admittedly did get laid at 5’3 because he has a great face (posted all the time in the AWDTSG group in our city). But he still suffered a lot through social marginalizarion, exclusion etc. And he got the surgery: TWICE. To 5’9. And he’s an unstoppable beast now with women and in life.
Sure dude maybe he won’t be a top tier world beating sprinter anymore. But he goes to the gym and the first thing he did after doing the surgeries and recovering was get shredded (not huge. Just natty). He got it in his mid late 30’s. And so much has changed for him it isn’t even funny. His comment? It takes longer than they say it does for you to completely get back to normal. That’s it.
You then cap off your comment with a blatant lie easily contradicted by a cursory read of CDC numbers. White men in the US have gotten no taller in the latest generation.
You need to understand nuance. It’s a risk…not that big of one certainly not even in the high tier as far as surgeries go. And for some people — the class i mentioned, men who suffer due to one flaw, it is a godsend….like most all cosmetic solutions.
It’s so weird this blog does a good job painting the picture of obstacles men face but really shits on any possible solutions due to the presence of any risk or possible downside and disregards the positive impact these changes can have. Being clear headed about it is good, but pretending that fixes do exist that can help people a lot don’t just is wack doomerism.
So you are saying all the negative experiences you read online regarding this surgery are fake? Are you serious!!. Do you even know what this surgery involves?
As for this person you claim who went from 5-3 to 5-9 i seriously doubt he has got back to normal after stretching his legs 6″. If you believe it is possible to get back to normal after lengthening that amount you may as well believe the moon is made out of cheese.You will absolutely no mobility in your legs after lengthening amounts like that. Your knees will be destroyed as will your hips and ankles! You are actually aware that muscles dont actually stretch?
This surgery was not meant for lengthening bones for height increase it was developed for limb length discrepancies. It is typically used as a last resort and it is done on one limb at a time typically to sort differences of 2-3 cms. A relative of mine got this done as his tibia was shorter on his left leg due to an accident he had when he was younger. When i told him about this surgery and that people were stretching their legs 2-4″ to become taller he said it was crazy. He complains of knee pain and stiff tight ankles on his leg that was lengthened and says he actually regrets getting it done a lot of the time. He got his done on the NHS back in the 90s so he didnt even pay for it.
Most surgery that is performed on people typically requires a recovery time to which people eventually return to normal. People who lengthen their limbs by 2-5″ DO NOT return to normal!! its DOES NOT happen!!
Id suggest you stop reading fake limb lengthening diaries online and ask a proper orthopaedic surgeon about this surgery. That does not include the doctors who run these limb lengthening clinics! They will tell you anything to get you to part with tens of thousands of dollars. Telling you the truth will hurt their sales!.
Ive no doubt that getting taller will make aspects of your life a lot easier. Common sense will tell you that however this surgery is not the answer to this problem. If pain was the only issue with this surgery and you returned to normal eventually after it same as you do with other surgeries id say go for it. However that is not the case with limb lengthening.
You are also deluded if you think the average height of men nowadays is not significantly taller than it was in the past. I frequently see parents who are about 5-2 and 5-9 with kids that are around 6-1 to 6-4. Clearly there is something in the food nowadays thats causing this, coupled with the fact theres a lot of advantages nowadays for kids that past generations did not have access to which reduces a lot of the stresses people used to encounter.
More nonsensical jive regarding LL: “U WILL NEVER BE DA SAME!”
“By 2 years, self-reported function and ability to complete timed functional tests had returned to or improved on the preoperative values. Muscle strength remained slightly below the preoperative value; this was more pronounced in the quadriceps than the hamstrings. There was no association between muscle strength and the amount of lengthening that had been undertaken.”
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20298828/
If you look at the study the decrease in muscle strength while statistically significant is very very very small in effect.
Regarding the negative experiences one reads online those come down to 1. Patient not following directions 2. Shady overseas docs.
I’ve seen the guy walking around and jogging just fine. Like I said his take is that it takes longer to recover than they say and that besides lifting (upper body) he’s not interested in being some high athletic performer: like the vast majority of short men.
Once again you bleat out blatant lies about “your muscles don’t stretch.” Your muscles actually grow in response to the stress to accommodate the new length.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9167625/
Yeah bro YOU got the surgery and a member of your family got the surgery yet everything you say about it is fucking wrong. Weird.
You then keep talking out of your ass about current average height when current NHAS data for YOUNG WHITE men has it at 5’9.7.
You admit height causes a lot of issues but want to pretend this isn’t a surgery that is safer than a BBL, produces a very small decrease in muscle strength and at best cuts in your max athletic ceiling (which most men don’t care about), and produces documented HUGE INCREASES in quality of life.
You don’t have data. You don’t even have any arguments beyond trust me bro.
Why?
Crabs in a bucket doomerism. Its almost sadistic how much people want men to suffer.
Go get it done then! You fucking clown!. You are one these people who will talk about doing something but never actually do it. I bet youve never even done steroids yet you are an expert on those as well. Ive taken several cycles throughout my training life so i know exactly what they can and cannot do.
I guarantee you those people who they tested were particularly strong in the first place so strength loss was going to be minimal anyway. I got my surgery done at a reputable clinic in Beijing under a very experienced doctor so did the others who were there who ALL suffered negative effects. I keep in contact with two of them and they keep in contact with others who had the surgery done prior to my arrival and guess what they suffered consequences as well!! So basically i and these other people are all wrong but YOU who has never and probably will never done the surgery knows about what it does and does not do! And no dumbass there only about 5 muscles in the body you can actually stretch and lengthen. The rate at which bones are stretched with limb lengthening is about 20-25 times faster than regular bone growth speed when its natural and its occurring in only section of your body, there is NO WAY for the tissue to be able to keep pace with the lengthening.
Stop talking out your arse about fantasy lad people who lenghtened their limbs 6″. Doctors typically do not allow lengthening past 5cms on tibias and around about 6cms on femurs as the complication rate goes up significantly past these numbers. NO doctor in these clinics has actually done the surgery themselves either so what they tell you is only based on what their patients tell them and as always with these things when you ask questions they will tell you the positive outcomes whilst ignoring the negatives!
Ive already explained the dangers of this surgery but you dont want to listen so if you go ahead dont come pissing and moaning that you werent told. but you wont anyway because you wont go ahead with it. You are like the guys who live in the fantasy land that ‘one day il go a steroid cycle and come off and never go back on again and il keep all my gains’
By the way steroid use and limb lengthening are still not close either. You can take steroids to some degree and get away with it with little to no long term side effects. The people who eventually suffer with steroid users are long term users who over years of use increase their dosages to dangerous levels! which most actually do and that includes your idiot Instagram ‘influencer’ retards.
I do have data you fool i have experience with both things youve mentioned unlike you who has zero experience and you will continue to have none as you wont do either!
Oh btw i can fully comprehend the discrimination short men face! i can assure you!
I spoke to a woman who has done this procedure on her femurs (she cannot walk properly anymore she did 4″) She has done multiple other cosmetic procedures on her face, stomach, legs, arms and even had ribs removed. I asked her how these procedures compared to limb lengthening and she said limb lengthening was by far the hardest one and that the others even combined didnt come close! She stated that limb lengthening was in fact the hardest thing she has ever done!
There was a diary years ago on an old forum about a patient who was a high level soccer player who bought into the “5cms is safe” crap!. He underwent the procedure and two years after attempted to comeback to football only to discover he couldnt run properly anymore, had no ankle flexibility and suffered from super tight muscles. Needles to say his footballing days were over! He would often go back on the forum and talk about the benefits of the extra height but would also say he badly missed playing fooball to the point it made him seriously depressed.
A lot of guys are damaging themselves with this surgery to still be shorter than average! This then compounds the fact that you had to do something so drastic and still dont ‘measure up’ to societies ideal standards
Think, think and think again!
Anecdotally, I don’t think the average male height in the US has increased in recent years. I’m 37 and 187cm tall. When I was 19 (and this same height) it was very rare for me to see anyone taller. It happened on occasion but it was rare. Right now, it’s exactly the same. And I spend a good amount of time in gyms where most are younger than me, in their teens and 20s.
Average height perhaps may increase from times of depression and famine but not in recent years in the US. There’s no evolutionary reason for men to continue getting taller.
Stop spending so much time on the Internet and go outside. Stop worrying about what you can’t change and start doing something productive or fun. Without exception, limb lengthening surgery for cosmetic reasons is stupid.
Where i stay the average height of men/young kids is easily 183cms. Friends of mine who are 183cms+ say they are starting to feel quite average/short nowadays. They also complain that women are telling them they prefer taller men.
I get out plenty and there are loads of people well over 6 foot nowadays. Its very easy to say dont worry about something you cant change when it is something that affects your life so negatively. Short men are highly discriminated against and its a socially accepted prejudice and typically labelled a ‘preference’ when people are asked why they dislike short men.
Its very easy to dismiss height discrimination when you are 187cms tall thats 6-1.5!. I also appreciate that people who have advantages in life dont want to acknowledge them and prefer to believe that every success theyve had was a simple matter of hard work on their part. Height is a HUGE advantage in life for men its not a small factor that you can overcome by focusing on other things. I appreciate there are tall losers out there and successful short guys but they are the exception to the rule and its also doesnt mean that the tall loser has not had advantages because of his height or that the short successful guy has not faced any discriminations because of his. Chances are the short guy would have achieved his success quicker and easier had he of been taller. I agree limb lengthening for cosmetic purposes is dangerous i would not say stupid as it is logical as a man in particular to want to become taller to make your life easier. People who undergo limb lengthening dont do it on a whim either. They feel desperate and that its their only solution to fix or attempt to fix the discriminations they face. Im pretty sure if you were say 15-20cms shorter you would have a lot of issues of your own that im certain you would blame on your height and you would be correct to do so AND im 100% certain you would look into limb lengthening as a solution. Im sure youd likely not do it, i would say only 3-5% of people who look into it eventually do it or even less. It is an extremely invasive surgery that takes a long time to complete and has a very very long recovery time to get back some level of proper function and you are NEVER the same after it
The best people to ask about height are actually people who have experienced both short and tall stature in the their life. I know two guys one in particular who was 5-5.5 when he left school at the ages of 18 but by the time he was 20 hed grown to 6-2.5. I asked him if he noticed any changes in his life with the drastic change in height and he said that being short is like playing a video game on hard mode constantly whereas being tall is like playing the game with god mode activated on easy level. So i think he and others like him opinions carry more weight. He told me that women who previously had absolutely no time for him all of a sudden became interested, people who talked down to him spoke to him with a much more respect and care and that people just generally took him far more seriously whereas before they were extremely dismissive. He actually said what angered him most was the fact that if he told relatives a number of his problems in life were caused by his short stature theyd dismiss this and blame his ‘his lack of confidence’ or his ‘negative attitude towards life’ when that was not the case his problems as he correctly put it were being caused by his short stature not something he was doing or something he could fix by a change of attitude.
This is instructive men.
For most things that work especially if they work for men….they are demonized and shit upon.
Steroids? They’ll break and ruin you and your balls will explode.
Meanwhile tons of dudes getting shredded getting gains and getting girls without incident (sorry bros the vast majority don’t become walking roid/slin/hgh pharmacies that explode their hearts)
Male cosmetic surgery? Insecure, don’t do it its your personality.
Meanwhile tons of dudes getting the procedure experience effect size differences in perception of personality far far greater than any number of years in copium therapy.
And the same is true here for LL.
Why?
Because it works and it works well.
Literally every Hollywood actor has work done and every male sex symbol for his body is on juice.
Why?
Because they fucking work.
Stop confusing being a pussy for there being issues with the fixes.
There are definite risks to all approaches…but if you can shoulder the risk of getting in your car, then the risk in all of these is more than rational if you’re suffering from the flaws they fix.
This one is discriminated against because he’s black, that one is discriminated against because she’s female, another because they’re gay. And now we’ve got all you all being discriminated against because you’re short?
Cry me a river but I don’t care. Too insensitive? IMO the REAL issue in today’s society is the ubiquitous victim mentality. Everyone crying over everything. It does you no good and it doesn’t do anyone else any good either. Nobody will feel sorry for you and nobody will care. They may pretend but they won’t care.
Nobody is dealt a perfect deck in life. Some far worse than others. Take advantage of what you can and do the best to make up for what you’re not given.
And stop caring about “women think” and “women say”. Who gives a fuck? Find ONE life partner who will love and respect you for who you are and be happy.
PS: IDK where you live but yes, in some regions (definitely not the US as a whole) the average male height is closer to 6 feet. So what? It changes nothing.
Yes you don’t care, which is why you will say stupid shit like “getting LL to fix a huge social problem is stupid.” Because you do NOT care about the suffering of others and apparently want them to suffer.
Which is fine. But rather than talk out of your ass about issues you’re ignorant of and don’t care about….why not keep your mouth shut regarding people trying to solve real problems in their lives?
Guess it’s easier to invalidate, dismiss, and shit on them. Who knew.
Limb lengthening does not fix a social problem any more than painting your skin will fix racism. Focus on things that are actually within your control and you’ll be happier. Limb lengthening is a scam. Even the guy who’s done it is cautioning you against it.
Hes an absolute clown who is talking out of his backside. It wont affect him because he is one of these people who will talk about doing something for years on end but will never actually do it. I followed these limb lengthening boards for years and it used to amaze me seeing people who had never done the surgery guiding people through the process. The blind leading the blind! He reminds me of these guys i know who tell you online what steroids do and dont do despite having never used them in their lives! If he does bite the bullet and goes for it hes going to suffer the consequences and its too fkn bad as he has been warned.
I’m from a country where Caucasian men are quite tall (probably about 5’11 on average).
My father was 5’5 and it absolutely affected him his whole life psychologically. He still managed to be a war hero though, and marry my mother who was quite something in her time (and not short herself at 5’4) and have a family.
I am 5’9 (thankfully) and my height is something I don’t even think about. I attract women half my age easily. I’ve never been explicitly rejected verbally by a woman because of my height (of course, they may just have politely said no thanks because they’re more attracted to taller men, but everyone has preferences).
Once you get to say 5’8 you really can’t use it as an excuse for anything. Would I prefer to be 2-3 inches taller? Sure, I guess. But I wouldn’t do leg lengthening surgery (unless it becomes a lot less barbaric really soon). I just don’t care enough and I wouldn’t be…..me.
I do understand the struggles of shorter statured men though, my seen what my father went through. I would not judge them for wanting to be taller and doing something about it.
1) Look up the divorce rate of ranchers. It is a fraction of the straight grain farmers. Why? Because girls love horses and boys love machines. Divorce and/or loneliness is a foreign concept among the ranching world.
Get a few acres and some chickens. Do it for yourself. This is an attainable goal for a useful man. Learn to country swing dance. Congrats, you just became male version the hottest 23 y/o female. Even if you’re 50. Anxiety and depression are an Urban problem, due to the excess spare time. The reason you will suddenly have options if you go this route is because you will be happy just being alive.
2)
It’s clear that being an incel is your whole identity. Are you afraid of losing this identity?
If what you say all the time is true, then I, a shorter than average guy, would be miserable, and nothing could be further from the truth. I’m not around people everyday, but when I am, people are super nice, and the ladies always smile and laugh with me… like ALL of them. Women are a joy to be around, especially those I meet for the first time, for the simple fact that when I see a gal in a store or the gym etc, I think, “I know what will make her day, a smile and a congrats on just being alive”. The key is the intent of making their day, and just leaving it alone. You can improve people’s day if that is your goal.
“What has changed in those 13 years Absolutely nothing, at least in a positive direction.”
Radical advances in science that are too many and too complex to list. I’m not talking AI, I’m
talking about the scientists in labs all over the world inching along individually over their lifetimes, which when combined, drives our understanding and our mastery of our environment along at an unprecedented pace. There are more scientists alive and working now, at this moment, than in the entire history of science combined.
Does this scare you, Truthseeker?
We see the results in major advances like the practical eradication of Hep C in developed countries and once a day anti-AIDS medications that allow a person with what was once an absolute death sentence a practically normal life. The discovery of the horror of HIV/AIDS, the hysteria, the millions of dead people, the politics and the now (for intents and purposes) cure have all occurred WITHIN MY LIFETIME. I was trying to explain the hysteria and fear about AIDS in 80s to my daughter and of how even I, in the lowest risk group (heterosexual, non IV drug using male) was terrified. She was unable to grasp it because she simply wasn’t there.
In my lifetime I also saw the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of USSR and communism. Only 5 years earlier, I was hearing that there was no practical way that the Cold War would end in my lifetime, possibly ever. I was 9 when I heard that and 14 when the whole thing disintegrated.
In the 13 years you mentioned, millions of people in the poorest parts of the planet have been lifted out of absolute poverty due to advances in science and technology (I hate all politicians so I will not give them credit). And millions of people who would have spent their lives illiterate now have access to basic education – again, due mostly to advances in technology and the associated reduction in the cost of delivering education.
Due to some work that I have had the privilege of being involved with, the cost of some of some extremely expensive medicines has dropped 80%-90% and I have witnessed them being made available in counties where only 15 years earlier it would have been unthinkable. This has all happened in this particular area over only 10-15 years.
Things can and do change on massive scales. Sometimes, Truthseeker, you do not live up to your name. I still love you though.