Mike Mentzer created a lot of controversy in bodybuilding. He was one of the few who dared to call out Arnold and Joe Weider. Mentzer wasn’t afraid to express his rather negative and yet very true opinion of the whole bodybuilding industry. Unfortunately, not all that came from Mike Mentzer was truth and honesty. His so-called Heavy Duty training system assembled under the principles of High-Intensity Training does not work as advertised unless you’re taking steroids.
What is Heavy Duty training?
The popular version of heavy duty training answers the following criteria:
1. Five work sets per workout
2. One work set to complete muscular failure per exercise
3. 4 to 10 days of rest between workouts
4. Compound exercises combined with machines
5. Implementation of techniques such as complete muscular failure, pre-exhaustion, forced negatives, assisted reps, isometric holds…etc.
A heavy duty workout should be relatively short, but the intensity must be taken to the ultimate limit. The work set should leave the lifter on the floor with vivid hallucinations before the eyes.
The exercises of choice are usually solid compound movements (e.g., bench press, dips, squats, deadlifts). However, the regimen incorporates machines too because that’s the only way to safely perform forced negatives and assisted reps. It’s much safer to do negatives on a bench press machine than with an actual barbell.
Many of the principles presented in Mentzer’s books were a breath of fresh air compared to the dominant high volume approach at the time. Arnold and his friends were training six days a week, two times a day.
Mentzer’s principles had a superb goal – to finally place quality over quantity. Sadly, he took everything to the other extreme.
Will High-intensity Heavy Duty routines work for naturals?
High-Intensity Heavy Duty workouts come with some good properties, but they also carry a lot of baggage that would hold naturals down.
a. Too hard on the CNS. Heavy duty training leaves the muscles in agony, but the most damage is actually eaten by the Central Nervous System. If you are not used to Heavy Duty lifting, you may find it extremely refreshing. However, after a few weeks, you will feel mentally drained. If that’s not the case, you are either a genetic freak, a beginner or your intensity is not that high.
When you begin every set knowing that you will go to complete failure, you will start to hate training.
b. Infrequent training causes de-adaptation. In order for adaptation to occur, there must be stress. When the stress is too infrequent “de-adaptation” takes place.
You can try the following experiment to understand this point.
Start training a muscle group every seven or ten days. You will be sore after every workout. Then, begin training the same body part 2 times a week. The soreness after your workouts will be significantly less. Why? Simple. When your training is infrequent, the downtime is too long, and the body starts reverting to its previous weaker state. Conversely, when you train more often, the body has no time to lose its condition. That’s why you are less sore. In addition, frequent training improves the recovering capabilities of the organism.
Since Heavy Duty calls for infrequent training, you will be sore after each workout because of “de-adaptation” rather than “perfect training”.
c. Not enough volume. Growth requires both – intensity and volume. The intensity (heavy weight) provides the strike force whereas the volume spreads the damage over the muscle tissue. One work set won’t work unless you also do back-off sets to make up for the low volume.
But Mentzer had an insane physique! How could he be wrong about training?
Mike Mentzer had a solid physique, no doubt. However, he was on steroids like the rest of the bodybuilders that he was competing against {more here}. Also, before switching to Heavy Duty training, he was doing regular volume workouts like his rivals.
In other words, he acquired his massive physique before converting to High-Intensity Training. Moreover, many of the athletes that he trained were not natural as well.
What’s you message to the H.I.T. Jedis?
Enjoy your super slow machine sets, but it’s not happening.
But Dorian Yates says that H.I.T. is the bet way to train?
Dorian Yates has been on steroids for longer than you’ve been alive. In addition, he also used volume in the beginning, just like Mentzer.
I totally agree. Heavy duty was that whole too good to be true scam. It promoted the idea that you only train once a week or two weeks in some cases and you’ll build a body of a Greek god. Total crap. I’ve seen guys train with heavy duty and they all look like they don’t lift due to the low frequency of the training. You HIT the nail on the head with this one. Heavy duty does suck for is naturals.
I bought his book on hit training, 5 sets and training a body part once a week or less, doesn’t put enough stress on the muscle to grow. He was already at his peak when he changed to hit training with few sets. Arnie trained 6 days a week twice a day. He did better than Mike in bodybuilding. If you’re gonna get a book. Buy Arnold’s encyclopaedia on bodybuilding
Mike believed that it was necessary to train less frequently because the body was becoming overtaxed. However, if we examine what happens, as we grow stronger the ischaemia that attends intense activities hastens. Mike readily acknowledged this in his early books, and is the main reason he turned to Rest Pause.
What he should have gleaned from this is that if you were able to do a set of eight reps with your 1RM – c(onstant) lbs, and the ischaemia increased, you become only capable of doing seven reps. The fact that you are capable of doing fewer reps per set means that you are capable of doing less work in the same amount of time. Ergo, despite assertions to the contrary, the emphasis needs to be on increasing the intensity of the exercise, not prolonging the recovery period, which as everybody has acknowledged here doesn’t work for steroid-free mortals.
The benefit of Arnold’s training therefore was that he emphasised the need to train each bodypart at least once every four days.
I think you’re missing the point. Ischemia isn’t the key thing. Intensity is meant to be increased using the variables of time (reducing the duration of the workouts) and simply by increasing the load. It’s simple: if you can work-up to a set of Squats with 600 lbs for 10 reps (to m.m.f.); all you need to do is add a little to the load (say increase it to 605 or even less).
If you reach the upper-limit of your potential and can’t add any more to the load and have tried reducing volume and frequency, then you could look at other ways to make training more difficult.
So, if you were very strong and did that Squat workout above, training soon after it would not only be a waste of time, it would be draining you further.
Increasing the recovery periods does work. You can train a lift every two weeks and make progress every time if you’re disciplined.
Arnold was not armed with logic. Listening to Arnold about training is listening to somebody who had no clue to what extent in reality the variables in his training affected his success.
Ischemia serves to demonstrate that the intensity of each set diminishes with the physiologic changes that attend strength increases.
If you don’t agree that’s fine; I can’t see the point in going round in circles repeating the same old rhetoric.
Good luck!
You don’t know what your talking about take 3 weeks off amd follow heavyduty 2
Wor,out. Chest and back then legs shoulders and arms legs again then chest and back 96 hrs after each workout after you hit chest and back again go to 120 hrs one time after chest and back then 96 hrs for legs then shoulder and arms legs again when you get to chest and back again drop deadlift do shrugs wait 120 go to legs another 120 hrs shoulders and arms 96 then legs 120 again then hit chest and back and add deadlift then go to 144 hrs one time follow the same procedure till you workout every 7 days switch to 3 compound movements till your working out every 10 days and by then I pro kse you you will have put on at least30 lbs of muscle I’ve done it and even one I know that trains they have done it and you will have put on all major lifts anywhere from 120 to 160 lbs and small lifts from 70 to 110 no question and ican be better than that the problem is none of you have followed it to a tee and if you say you have your either full blown lying or your of poor recovery ability and need a very abbreviated workout anyone who denies this here’s my number and one more thing if you raise volume you lower intensity by going 2 reps shy of failure you can also go with a straight set system of let’s say 4 sets of eight when yk in get to you 4 set of 8shoukd be just shy of failure and as you grow stronger you have to reduce frequency and when you have become as strong as you. Can be by your genetics you will add volume lower intensity amd get endurance it is the absolute truth what he says everything it can be adjusted based on certain things but you will receive less than optimal results if you put steroids in the game you can use more volume but the same principle applies 754 214 1324 my name is Louis I own body art I can say I’m one of the best in the world and nobody fails under me and Mike gave to me the understanding of this critical issue is no one knows why the body grows muscle they say you tear it down then it grows back stronger that is nit the reason the reason is the body grows muscle in the ares where there are micro tears because it’s defending itself against the stress being imposed on the central nervous system it’s nothing more than that once you understand this then your eyes will open as when followed naturally heavy duty 2 wor,out you will gain 10 to 20 lbs of. Muscle in a. Month and you will gain at least 20 to 30 lbs in3. Months it’s a fact
Mike mentioned that a natural bodybuilder he knew named David Staplin was taking 3 weeks off between workouts and making great progress. See my post above.
I’m not trying to be antagonistic. I don’t see the above as rhetoric. As I say, if Mike was being honest, it’s fact.
What a natural bodybuilder does when he’s very close to his genetic limit, I don’t know. Four weeks between workouts, low rep sets like weightlifters do perhaps. Rest-Pause is a bad idea for naturals, I’d say.
What would you recommend?
Well in the high intensity low-volume workouts every person I’ve personally trained as well as myself have always gotten stronger and bigger faster than any other type of routines that we have done. I’ve never seen anyone not achieve better and faster on a high-intensity routine with low-volume. I’m just going to say flat-out I don’t think you know what you’re talkin about.
Is that you,Captain Mantastic otherwise known as OldSkoolBodybuildingRoutines otherwise known as Rob Jeffery ? Wow !! You are everywhere in regards to this HIT vs volume debate and developing one hell of a cult following in regards to this topic of conversation.People nowadays just quite simply look down the comments section of YouTube in regards to both Mentzer brothers, Casey Viator, Arthur Jones and anything to do with the HIT vs Volume debate just to see if they can find your comments.You really are one helluva character !!! Lol
@Louise…please post physique and prove your dubious claim then.
Well, all I can say is that I’ve never used steroids and I built huge muscle gains in super short periods of time using heavy duty training after years of getting nowhere with frequent high volume training. And every friend that I put on the program saw amazing results in a short amount of time except for one who would not follow the program and not rest enough and not eat enough.
^^ This.
From my own experience as well as friends’, we all overcame our plateaus with HD. I honestly couldn’t believe it… but it made me giddy. Actually, what really struck me was the fact that no one else was doing it. I admit it though, I initially refused to believe it would work, as it went against everything I had learned up to that point. But, with my gains at a long time standstill with traditional routines, I had nothing to lose. Now fifteen years later, I still incorporate HD into my routine … and it still works. I guess it’ll always work for me as long as I’m a human being…
That’s true Bro,
The people who are saying Heavy duty does not work are the people who does not push them up to true failure or not eat or sleep good enough.
Hence natural bodybuilders most concerned about recovery and unlike steroids user, the excess hormone they are putting in from outside, those hormone will make sure their recovery even though they over training,
So for natural bodybuilders heavy duty program should be the best approach because it provides the most recovery.
I am a natural bodybuilder and I’m glad to hear your experience with Heavy duty. Thanks
At least you declared your bias before you hurled the insult 🙂
Seriously, as Mike said, his training methods are the most efficient. What I’m arguing is that his earlier works that focussed on increasing intensity were key.
I started training heavy duty when I turned 40 years old after I read mentzers book. In the past five yeats, I have gained more mass and strength than I did in the previous ten years doing all the 3, 4 and 5 day splits that every muscle head preaches. If you heavy duty training the right way, it works. But as mentioned in the article, it is not for everybody. Roo scary for some, too different for others. I am a steroid free athelete and heavy duty was a life changer for me. 45 years old, 5’10” tall, 230 pounds with 11 percent body fat. Strength gains have been continuous for the past few years. The trick is, mix up the exercises just as the book says. Take breaks. Enjoy life. I’m an advocate for heavy duty training as it works for me and my goals and my quality of life.
I very much doubt that. More like you have a invested interested in HD and spread this garbage all over the net. HD sucks for natty’s.
Way late to the conversation, but putting in Greg’s stats to an online FFMI calculator put him at an FFMI of over 29 – at 45 years old! No way without steroids.
Hmm…”Naturals do better with higher volume and moderate intensity”, so why is there another article on this site called “The minimalists guide to bodybuilding: Do less, achieve more”? This is exactly the message Mike Mentzer promoted!
that article talks about progressive overload and importance of compound exercises btw by more volume he means more sets like 3 work sets or 1 work set with backoff sets also what Mike Mentzer promoted was training to failure not to progress. HD have good ideas like : recovery – doing compound exercises – training less frequent instead of training 6 days a week but he ruined all of them . a good routine should be like this : each lift once or twice a week – train to progress not to failure – do more sets like 3 – 4
Think your missing the point fan boy…
Moreover, Mike didnt merely promote training to failure, he emphasised progressive intensity and overload and ajusting one’s frequency accordingly.
I tried working out once per week a few times and it worked great.
If you account for weights used and time under tension (including negatives, focus on eccentrics,drop sets, and rest pause sets) and actually calculate, an HD workout actually has a lot more volume than a typical 5×5 workout. On paper it looks like less than it really is, unless you actually do the calculations and analyze it.
With that in mind, here’s food for thought: if a genetic potential exists, then any workout that causes muscle growth at a reasonable rate will give the same exact end result over the long term as any other. That end result is reaching and maintaining one’s genetic potential. That means for the most part that most fairly designed routines will work for the same purpose. With that being the case, I’ll pick the one that requires less gym time.
Remember, only steroids can get one past their genetic potential, not a magic routine. There is no best routine.
Also, with HD training you get past burnout by simply changing exercises when necessary. If done correctly, you wouldn’t make every exercise torturous on every workout.
You sound like the biggest loser on the planet. Nothing works for natties according to you. High volume don’t work, 20 rep squats don’t work, HIT don’t work, make up you’re fucking mind.
Heck man, any one of those routines will work for a natty, of course until they reach their genetic potential. And at that point only steroids can make one progress further.
With that being true, I’ll choose HIT. At least that way I won’t spend my life in the gym. And I’ll work hard and stay strong and it won’t matter 1 set or more I won’t make excuses.
Robert H U really dont knowe the meaning of HIT .
Only few people cand do……..
true words hit works i have never used steroids and i have used it for years it is the only form of training that got my incline up 50 pounds in 2 months.it works maybe u just have shit genetics.and i agree with the guy above according to the author volume sucks for nattys and hit make up ur mind.
Pple dont get it. Any proper lifting word. Rest enough and this works. Its nothing but intense TUT. Condensed. This article is clearly opinion based, not off experience . And turns out theres a different article glorifying minimalist training. Figures
@Nakel
Actually ive a very good understanding of HIT, the principles have severed me well (and the dozens of people ive trained) since the mid 90s. I understand that results are proportional to the intensity of effort put forth, I understand the intensity and volume coexist on an inverse ratio, and I understand that intense training must be kept relatively infrequent.
Its the laws of nature the dictate training requirements.
I don’t know about the extremes of HD Vs. high volume training, but from my own experience I think there may also be a physiological difference for older men.
I’m 47, and although I’m the strongest I’ve ever been, I’m no longer as energetic, agile or recuperative as I once was.
I’m finding I get great results if there’s about 4-5 days between hitting each of my splits – for example back, shoulders and triceps every five days. And it also gives me the longer time I need for those muscles to recuperate.
When I was younger I had endless energy and could cycle through every 3 days.
I’ll never go back to volume training. I’ll stick to my constant progression on an abbreviated program. I also enjoy not having constant joint issues and not spending my life in the gym.
Heavy duty at least laid to rest the” requirement” of 20 sets/ body part. However, being brief should not be allowed to interfere with proper warmups, especially as the body response can feel different, workout to workout. Abbreviated pyramiding, seems to me to contain proper warmup, instinctive feel, refining groove and imposing a natural volume limit. I have also found like another contributor that five days rest between body-parts seems to keep cropping up as an optimum pause.
Actually, Heavy Duty is ideal for a natural trainer as it stop the ridiculous, high volume practice that leads to over training and into which most trainees fall into.
Who ever wrote this article was looking for an excuse because he simply was not willing to put in the effort necessary to do the hard work that Heavy Duty requires.
Having grown up in the “Arnold” era, high volume was the rule and so was years upon years of little to no improvement or gain in muscle size especially for those who were training without the assistance of steroid and other PEDs.
Arthur Jones, Ellington Darden and Mike Mentzer changed all of that along with destroying the myth that one had to literally live in the gym.
If you are man enough to have the will, psychologically and physically to do the work, Heavy Duty is the way to go.
The people on this page that say it does not work, are not going as heavy as they can with intensity. They are doing the I think I am going as heavy as you can. Training heavy for 1 set helps more than doing 5 to 15 at medium weight.
Anyone trying H.I.T probably needs to keep it up for 2 or 3 months in order to develop proper technique. When they have done that and have reached a meaningful weight they should start to see results. It works better with a friend or an instructor to help you through to failure. Difficult for most people to go there on there own. Its not an easy protocol.
Truthfully….Most people don’t have the balls to ever do these high intensity workouts…
I’ve rarely noticed a roid retard ever go to failure on a single set….
It works just like any other workout if you do it right. It is best for breaking out of pleatues and it will work best if you modify it a little. Google for some modification. Not a scam, never was.
I remember the original HD articles Mike wrote in Weider’s “Muscle Builder and Power” back in 78′ and 79’….Mike was advocating about 7 sets per body part to failure….Which was about right….(when throwing in rest/pause, negatives, statics, 2 up one down, drop sets etc…)….
Mike (along with Casey Viator) worked for Arthur (Nautilus) Jones who trained them using one set….Mike wrote that whenever Arthur turned around he and Casey did a “few more sets”…..
Later in Heavy Duty II he cut everything to a single isolation/compound set…..Mon- Chest and Tris. Wed- Back and arms. Fri- Legs and shoulders….
I went ALL OUT on this routine….The isolation/compound and rest pause sets were initially a shock but the muscles became accustomed to them after a few workouts…In the later 90’s I did MIke’s HDII back routine (pull overs SS with seated front reverse grip lat pulldowns…) When I went back to strict full range pull ups and chins the reps was able to do dropped from 14 to 7 reps….
Bottom Line: Keep mixing the workouts up using the high intensity techniques….7-10 set per body part…. Those HDII techniques are about as valid as Zane’s 20 sets per body part….
Just starting HD as of tonight or rather one of mikes workouts http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/becker22.htm
Currently my bench is 315 , squat and DL staying around 3 plates for now coming off an injury. I’ve always used Arnold’s encyclopedia but I have a BB competition coming up next summer and I’m gonna give this a try for 1-3 months. I’ll let you guys know how it goes. Arnold is my hero so is Lee priest and I have no investment in HD whatsoever, so I promise an unbiased opinion.
After 2-3 weeks I can see noticeable gains. Not dramatic but noticeable.I’m lifting 3 seconds up hold and squeeze 2 seconds and 3 seconds down for negative. Lifting heavy enough to perform 6-8 reps in this fashion. I do 2 warm up sets of 50 fast reps just to pump blood in the muscle and then do 3 working sets of slower HD style 6-8 reps.
I find HVT and HIT extreme dogmas. The truth is in the middle. I’ve always trained in a personal progressive pyramidal style with very good results :
A. 8-10 sets / small body part (2-3 exercises x 3-4 sets)
B. 12-14 sets / big body part (3-4 exercises x 3-4 sets)
C. every set increase the load and decrease the reps
D. reps only between 10 and 4, sometimes 2 (for exemple: 10, 8, 6, 4, 2)
E. the sets after first are all to failure
F. the movement is natural, corect as posible and do not stress the negative part
G. be instinctive, listen to your body regarding the number of exercises, sets and reps
H. train the body part once per week
For me Mike’s HD training system is perfect, being 48 years of age it allows my body to recuperate while the workouts of short & intense. If i were younger & just starting out i would probably introduce more volume & cut down on the rest days but for me a godsend. Mike rest in peace brother.
Ellington Darden, one of the foremost exercise physiolgists, has published numerous books/studies that espouses Mentzner’s theories. One of his most recent books, Fat Loss Break Through, had a group of men and women doing 90 second reps (ONE SET PER BODY PART) and had them train once every 5 to seven days–and they achieved astounding results. Muscle isnt built in the gym–that is when intense exercise will cause micro tears in the muscle; then, during the recuperative phase, the muscles will rebuild themselves. All of the participants were able to build muscle and had amazing fat loss results!! NONE of them used steroids. There is too much Bro science that floats around gyms, forums, and the internet. Most people lack the intensity to take a set to 100% failure using STRICT form (no heaving, bouncing, swinging, using momentum, etc). And sadly, how many people look the same year after year depsite “working out”?
It works if you’re natty. Worked for me. You keep the protein up, get rest, and try to do more each soul-crushing workout, and it will work. Too long workouts and too many reps only force the muscles to adapt if you’re already on roids.
Trust me. It takes self discipline. Most important point; do a 4-2-4 cadence until failure and wait a week for each bodypart. It isn’t that complicated.
People that say HIT doesn’t work for natty are simply not reading the actual manual written by Mentzer – or if they are, they are not understanding it. HIT is by far the best way to build solid muscle quickly and safely for natties. I’ve trained volume for years, taken tons of supplements (never gear), and spent obscene amounts of time in the gym. Now, at 45, I am in and out of the gym in 10 to 15 minutes once every four days – unless I have to wait for a piece of equipment, but I try to go on off peak hours, and my results (both in weight lifted, and muscle gained) are blowing away anything I ever did in my 20s and 30s, using only a BCAA supplement and Creatine.
For anyone reading this who is on the fence abouot HIT – High Intensity Training – Heavy Duty – get teh actual HIT book (Amazon has it) and read it, then follow it. Don’t get your info from poorly summarized third person articles that miss many of the important details of the HIT method. If you are doing this correctly, as a natty, you will literally feel yourself growing after your first workout. And don’t give in to temptation to frequent the gym too soon – a very key part of HIT is recuperation. Over training is real if you aren’t on gear – it takes a leap of faith to unlearn all the volume BS you’ve been reading about and using all these years.
Before and after pics?
You’re exactly right. Less is more with HIT. And you have to get past volume routines. Only on gear will volume really help. HIT gives you great gains and incredible strength. It is just very tempting to equate 2 hours in the gym with work when you’re really overtraining. 15-20 mins and trust the down time and you’ll be blown away.
Mentzer was a genius. Sure he was on roids. But let’s remember: in a sport full of gear users, Mentzer got a perfect score. And should’ve beaten Arnold in 80. His workout philosophy mattered.
And it works for me.
im 59 and use hit,works for me,5 ft 11 238
Pics?
I do think this way of training works. For example, I’ve trained my crushing grip regularly with eighteen days between workouts and still made progress. So, I can’t see how detraining is an issue.
In one of Mike’s magazine columns he mentioned somebody who’d gone even further than this. He wrote:
”Earlier this year, I received a phone call from David Staplin, a writer for my web site. It seems that Mr. Staplin had made great progress for many months with the Consolidation Program listed in Heavy Duty II; Mind and Body (as well as on the tapes). Using that routine, training once a week, David reached a high bodyweight of 200 lbs at 5’8,” with nine percent bodyfat: very good for a natural bodybuilder. But, after months of unbreached progress, he hit a plateau, unable to gain any more, either in size or strength. At that juncture, David decided to try something radical: he reduced his training frequency to once every three weeks, 21 days. After several months of unbreached progress with the new frequency protocol, he weighs 237 pounds with only a slight increase in fat, and he’s still increasing in strength at a rate of ten percent per workout.”
I’m still trying to find where I stand with training to failure. I’ve had some success with it but not to the extent above.
The good thing about it is you certainly do work intensely. Even with the best of intentions, it’s very difficult with sets of 3 or 5 (not to failure) whether you’re leaving too much in the tank.
Lame brain article, its clear you didnt comprehend. In my op If you ain’t sore you ain’t growing. With cadence 4-2-4 , trust me more volume is needless. takes at least 3-4 weeks to begin losing strength/muscle on avg. at least 2 weeks for your body to readjust. its virtually impossible not to grow doing HIT correctly! Mike switched to several hit routines to gain his final 20lbs which is the hardest to get since ur peaking!Advanced may not work for natties but techniques & all prior templates should. Customize it & u cant go wrong
It works better for nattys. But requires great amount of concentration that the average joe or beginner plainly doesnt have. The problem is that HIT hits your cns like nothing you ever experienced before, but thats the reason you have to take days off. That depends solely on your recovery abilities i have found that 1 or 2 or 3 days its all i need depending on the parts i ve worked.
Sorry this article is ridiculous. When I read or hear someone say you can do this as a natural you are not dedicated, you have a lazy work ethic, and you life is full of excuses. I’m 47 years old, I just got back into lifting after decades of being away from the irons. Within one year I went from 155 to 180, all natural and I don’t fully do HIT like Mike Mentzer but I firmly believe in the 1 working set.
I still with compound movements, the only isolation exercise I do are Side and Back Lateral raises for the shoulders. And I’m all natural, I only eat 3 meals a day and take Whey protein once a day. Just work hard and stop making excuses.
Agreed. i tried heavy duty training for only two months, in two months i looked like shit, like one that doesn’t lift anymore. Going always to failure is wrong, you simply can’t tolerate it without steroids. i was mentally exhausted but my muscles were undertrained, Low volume suck, i think 20 to 30-35 sets per workout 3 times are week are fine. A base of compound movements like 30%, and 70% of isolations exercise.
Over 40 years of Heavy Duty and still progressing! How ridiculous to use a blanket statement like the title of this article. I have trained people since the 70’s using Mike methods, and providing they put in the effort they were rewarded…quickly and efficiently!!! Hardgainers, to the tune of #5 in 2 weeks was the norm.
The title should be reversed; “naturals suck applying Mentzer’s Heavy Duty workouts”. That is the reality as I have seen what people call ‘failure’. Some grimaces at the end of a set, for good effect, then they call it quits. When they could and should have completed 2-3 more reps. That is what triggers growth and is the essence of Heavy Duty.
Mike was right about finding the minimal amount of exercise to trigger growth. Not everyone needs 1-2 sets every 2 weeks…Mike never claimed that. He provided an outline in the hopes trainees would fine tune them to their individual needs. But most people are lazy, in effort and application, wanting someone else to give them all the answers. It’s always easy to blame others than yourself.
My 70’s HD workouts were different from my 80’s ones, as were my 90’s workouts to my current ones. As you grow stronger, and bigger, you need less. There’s no other way around it. Most people don’t work for gains, then blame Mike and/or Heavy Duty for their lack of results. Talk about throwing in the towel! And nonsense articles like this ego stroke the laziness among trainees.
Pics? Where are all of this natties getting amazing results with heavy duty? I saw the testimonial on mike’site, they all look like the don’t even lift. I buyed his books, and I trained two months in this fashion, I was going all out in every set believing that in a few months i will look huge. Total crap, after two months I was mentally drained and i looked fatter and deconditioned. Pre exhaustion suck. Now i’m training two times a week with a routine promoted in Hardgainer magazine and I look much better. Training should be simple, You don’t need pre exhaustion,crazy intensity, drop sets, negative reps, rest pause, forced reps.. you need only an handful of compound movements, some isolation work, good exercise technique, 2-3 work set per exercise, and building strenght, that’s it. Instead of using pre exhaustion, do only the compound movements and use more weight
When a routine previously yielded strength gains, then eventually doesn’t, it can hardly be because of the laziness of trainees.
That reads like a lazy accusation.
The key lies in increasing intensity, not rest between workouts.
Gaining 5lbs in 2 weeks was NOT the norm with HITters, You’re more full of shit than Mentzer the meth head.
Mike never said pre-ex was a must! In fact when we discussed it Mike simply said “don’t get too hung up on it”. You trained on Heavy Duty for 2 months and you claim “it doesn’t work”? Sorry to tell you it isn’t a matter of grasping a routine, any routine, and running with it. Mike provided ‘guidelines’, hoping others would tweak them for their individual needs. Compounds ARE the way to the best size gains! You have that right. Which is what Mike said, as trainees advance to eliminate isolation moves. That’s why his Consolidation Routine is basics focused.
Yes only two months because I was getting worse, I was going back. Mike Mentzer said that the progress should be immediate and continuous. I was taking 3/4 days off between workouts so In my opinion it wasn’t overtraining, instead it was undertraining, I was deconditioned. Mike mentzer made some good points but training one muscle group once a month, seriously? In fact Arthur jones never advocated such infrequent training, he always promoted fullbody workouts and for a good reason
Wow. All these commenters stating they made great gains by Mentzer’s hit are either delusional or just pushing the hit agenda or both. I’ve never seen anyone build a great body with mentzer’s Hit system. No one. Let’s look at real world results. The majority of bodybuilders of the many decades built their bodies with a good amount of volume. Not one top athlete has built their bodies with hit exclusively. Not one.
Mentzer built his mass with volume as did Yates as did Viator etc.
Yates did more powerlifting type training but disguised it as some revolutionary way of training. It wasn’t. It was just ramping/pyramiding up in weight to 1-2 top sets. Nothing new. Many have trained that way.
Greg Zulak, who was a bodybuilder and wrote for the muscle magazines, saw Mentzer working out in gold’s gym. He clearly saw mike doing 4 sets for an exercise, 4 exercises per bodypart pyramiding up the weight in a 10-12, 8-10, 6-8, 4-6 fashion. He went hard on all sets and on the last set he did forced reps and negatives. When Greg asked mike if he’d abandoned hit, mike snapped (Mentzer was an asshole btw) that it was the last set that only counts. Greg walked away knowing that hit was a load of shit.
Even Yates was known to do periods of high volume training at times as was witnessed by Lee Priest. Lee saw Yates do more sets, not his one set to failure training when Lee trained with Yates in Australia.
The reality is that hit DOES NOT work for people weather they’re on steroids or not. Look at Ellington Darden for instance, built his body with volume. When he switched to hit, he didn’t get any bigger, in fact, he lost size. Same with Drew Baye, Arthur Jones, Doug McGuff. They’re all are/were con men. If hit really worked as it states we’d all be doing it. Hit has been around for 50 years yet it doesn’t really stick. Why? Because it’s a fad and fads come and go, what actually works, sticks. The hit proponents try to keep selling hit but if it really worked, it wouldn’t need selling.
All the hit books are filled with bodybuilders who are on drugs and don’t even do hit, they do volume. You’d think after 50 years the hit side would have tons of bodybuilders who trained on hit and nothing else. Where are the big hitters? There are none. Hit is for people who don’t really want to workout and diet but still want a great body. There are no shortcuts. All these hitters claiming they’ve made amazing gains on hit are greatly exaggerating. Most of these hitters couldn’t even bench press 20kg dumbbells in each hand.
For natties, volume works. Training to failure compromises the cns too much. That leads to quick plateaus and burnout. It’s best to stop 1-4 reps shy of failure and do multiple sets to break down the muscle tissue. How much volume is different for each individual. Some need more, others a little less. This claim that this whole one set to failure is the best way to train is just pure rubbish. It’s dead. It was given a chance by people such as Weider and Robert Kennedy but it failed to deliver what it promised. Bodybuilders (who didn’t have a financial interest in hit like the Mentzer’s, Jones, Baye, Darden, McGuff did/do) who tried hit came back saying they lost size and strength, these include Boyer Coe, Danny Padilla, Franco Columbu and even Schwarzenegger.
Hit sucks, always has, always will. Get in the gym and do some real training. That’s what it takes.
All bodybuilders are con men. All. Why? Roids. Period.
However, HIIT is common sense. You can’t push a muscle farther than failure. How you get there is up to debate.
Reason why bodybuilders love volume is bc of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. The reps build fluid in the muscle, not muscle fibers.
So yeah you’re kind of right, bodybuilders use volume. Mentzer’s HIIT isn’t good for popcorn muscles. But for strength it’s better.
Schwarzenegger was Mr. Volume, and he also was Mr. Roids. And like Mentzer and every other bodybuilder, he had heart problems. He just kept quiet about it.
Look at him now, no roids, he’s a normal person. And i doubt he’s that strong.
I’m not a bodybuilder, but a month ago I got in a fight with one. I’ve been doing HIIT for years. I kicked his ass.
Mentzer’s HIIT is common sense.
“All bodybuilders are con men. All. Why? Roids. Period.”
Some are. Some aren’t. Btw, Mentzer, Jones, Dardern are con men. Period.
“However, HIIT is common sense.”
No, it really is not. It’s a fad and nothing more.
“You can’t push a muscle farther than failure.”
You don’t need to go to failure to grow. There’s no data to back up that claim.
“How you get there is up to debate.”
No. Hit has been debunked many times over. There is no further debate.
“Reason why bodybuilders love volume is bc of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. The reps build fluid in the muscle, not muscle fibers.”
Wrong again. Decades of bodybuilders show that volume is the best for growth. Since it’s volume that built the best bodies ever, drug free and enhanced.
“So yeah you’re kind of right, bodybuilders use volume.”
No, I am right.
“Mentzer’s HIIT isn’t good for popcorn muscles.”
It’s HIT not HIIT.
“But for strength it’s better.”
Nope. No strong man uses hit, or powerlifters or weight trainers. They all, do multiple sets.
“Schwarzenegger was Mr. Volume, and he also was Mr. Roids.”
Yeah, he was on roids but he found out that he needed high volume to achieve his great physique. As 99.99% of other bodybuilders do. Drug free or not. Volume works.
“And like Mentzer and every other bodybuilder, he had heart problems.He just kept quiet about it.”
So? Not all bodybuilders have had heart problems.
“Look at him now, no roids, he’s a normal person.”
Still in great shape and big. Where’s Mentzer these days. Oh that’s right. He’s six feet under.
“And i doubt he’s that strong.”
Stronger than you that’s for sure.
“I’m not a bodybuilder,”
So why even debate.
“but a month ago I got in a fight with one. I’ve been doing HIIT for years. I kicked his ass.”
Doubt that.
“Mentzer’s HIIT is common sense.”
There’s no sense with you Mentzer fag boys. Mentzer’s dead. Hit is dead. It never caught on as it failed to deliver. Volume rules because it works. You keep wasting your time with hit. It’s not happening.
Clearly you didn’t know Mike, a con man he wasn’t! In fact he was keen to help anyone, dedicated enough, to achieve their goals. I also know Darden, dating back to 1983, he’s of similar vane. So don’t make ridiculous blanket statements based on falsehoods!
As for heart issues…it ran in the family tree. No Mentzer male lasted into their 50’s. So again, you are making yourself look stupid with falsehoods!
Before you go sprouting information,name calling “Mentzer fags”…best you get your facts straight.
Clearly you didn’t know Mike, a con man he wasn’t! In fact he was keen to help anyone, dedicated enough, to achieve their goals. I also know Darden, dating back to 1983, he’s of similar vane. So don’t make ridiculous blanket statements based on falsehoods!
As for heart issues…it ran in the family tree. No Mentzer male lasted into their 50’s. So again, you are making yourself look stupid with falsehoods!
Before you go sprouting information, name calling “Mentzer fags”…best you get your facts straight.
mentzer certainly was a con man. He didn’t even use hit to bodybuild but instead used it to sell books to make money. That’s it.
He was keen to help those who were gulliable enough to pay him.
Darden is another con job who built his body with volume, just like mentzer, then hopped on the hit band wagon just to make a name for himself and sell books. Otherwise he would’ve slipped into obscurity.
mentzer did not care about his health. Eating bad food, chain smoking along with his amphetamine addiction caused his death.
Facts hurt, kid. And yes, mentzer fans are indeed f@gs.
Oh, and as for HIT/Heavy Duty “not working”…the 100’s I have trained since 1979 would beg to differ. In fact, this just came in today; Quinn, you can not believe how well my training is going and all those I told you about. Since October last year my body stood still but with your advice, re negative training, I have increased my weight by 2.6 kilos. Not bad considering I am almost 72, but the younger chaps too are all doing well.
This man owns a large gym, he used to compete as does many of his members. There’s method of choice…Heavy Duty!
So cease now Mark, while you are ahead. You’ve already shown how clueless you are, with foolish statements and name calling. I won’t sink to your level but your attituder against Mike, Darden, etc and Heavy Duty tells me all I need to know.
You seem familiar, do you know Ric Drasin by any chance?
Being a fraud, like most HIT ‘experts’.
Selling the hit con but has no proof to back up your claims.
All hitters are either pencil necked dweebs or fat old slobs.
If hit really worked worked you wouldn’t be trying so hard to defend this con. Hitters are so emotional.
I am 54 now.
I used HD when I was 18 and it worked.
30 years later after on and off weight training I used HD agian but had to becareful as the older you get the longer it takes to recover.
I was stronger every workout.
What he taught worked for me
So you got stronger…..Bodybuilding is about size and i’ve yet to see a big HITter.
Well I swing between 250-260#, and I’ve been a staunch Heavy Duty’er since 1978.
I was talking naturals.
So was I!! (bar creatine)
LOL Nah.
Try again! I’m afraid so.
People who use HIT are known to be liars on forums, but feel free to carry on entertaining, laughter is good for the soul.
“Known to be liars” huh. That tells me all I need to know. You truly are an IDIOT!! Keep protecting that manhood keyboard warrior.
Yeah, like you’re doing right now. Keep pretending you’re 250. HIT advocates with their endless claims and no proof to back it up.
I was talking to a HITter the other day, He gained 6 lbs of muscle in a year and thought that was ‘amazing’ LOL I guess he reached his ‘genetic limit’, maybe if he took 3 weeks off in between workouts he would of got bigger! LOL HIT dogma. I feel sorry for these skinny guys who get conned into this fucking nonsense.
Everyone I see doing mentzers hit are either pencil neck dweebs or fat slobs. No hitter gas a bodybuilder physique. None. Hit sucks.
Everyone I see doing mentzer’s hit are either pencil neck dweebs or fat slobs. No hitter has a bodybuilder physique. None. Hit sucks.
HIT works for me. First time I started using it, one of the gym regulars asked me what I was taking, perhaps implying I was on some gear. Mind you, I’m not a bodybuilder nor look like one, but the progress I made for myself was noticeable from the outside. And for me, that’s what the gym is for: to make progress.
I sure don’t want to spend hours in the gym. In fact, nowadays, I really dislike being in the gym. But I like the equipment, free weights, and machines. You need machines to safely push yourself to failure. I train by myself and am disciplined enough to do my warm-up sets, then a few sets to failure and get the heck out of the gym. I’m averaging about 1 workout per week these days, lasting about 15-20 minutes.
An example of what I did today, in this order:
1) CALVES: Calf machine presses; 3 sets warming up to a max of 1 working set at about 205 lbs
2) BACK: I wanted to do pulldowns, but there was a personal trainer working with someone, so I skipped it. I went to barbell rows. Warm-up sets: 1@empty bar for 10 reps, 1@95 for 6 reps, 1@ 115 for 6, and finally 1@135 to failure (8 reps). If the personal trainer were not there, I would have done curl grip pulldowns to failure as a pre-fatigue, then go immediately to the barbell rows. Note: if there was a pullover machine, I would have used that, but those seem to be harder to find in my area.
3) CHEST: Machine flyes: 1@50lbs 10 reps, 1@90 lbs 10 reps, 1@135 12 reps to failure, then immediately go to some angled seated bench press machine 1@135 lbs 10 reps failure.
And that’s it. All done pretty fast, with very little rest between any of it. Get in, do the work, then get the heck out of there. I’ll be back in a week for chest and biceps, maybe some shoulders.
Of note, I felt extremely strong on the max barbell row set and seated machine bench press, lifting more weight than the previous workout for those same bodyparts. And it had been about a week since I last worked out. AND, the last workout I did was legs and arms. So that means my back and chest really ‘rested’ for nearly TWO WEEKS. Yes, read that again…I hadn’t worked out my chest and back for over TWO WEEKS, and I was stronger coming back. Think about that.
My goal isn’t to get a PR every week on my bench. Not my thing. Might be if you’re a powerlifter, but again, I aim to make progress within my own objectives when it comes to health and fitness. Me making strength gains between two separate chest and back workouts that were spaced out two weeks between each other is proof that there is no loss of strength. And, strength gains will precede any noticeable visible results in physique/muscular gains. Which honestly for me these days, will be a happy side effect of my training for modest strength increases from workout to workout.
I would call myself a hard gainer, yet this program does work for me. My body is not overtrained, and my goal with this program is to add some size. I am about 6 feet tall and hover in at around 210-212 pounds. I don’t look ‘skinny’, but I don’t look hulking either. I have no aspirations to become any kind of physique star/personality, just something to get me out of my sit-down job which is like hours on end ( I work in graphic design, video editing, web design, illustration.) So yeah, my butt’s in a work chair for many, many hours.
One might argue I should be in the gym more, but as I mentioned, I really dislike gyms. But I get out of them what I need. For overall health, I just go on walks. Plus, I do West Coast Swing dancing, which keeps me fairly agile as well.
And final note, even if both methods work (high volume and HIT)..as I once read somewhere that some coach said “Ehh, all those workout routines work…”, well, if I’m spending less time in the gym and getting even the same results that I could obtain by training with volume, HIT wins because I’m spending less time in the gym overall.
I also understand people go to the gym for different reasons and obviously have different goals and limitations. I just turned 49 this year, but feel I can still push myself to train HIT. Is HIT for everyone? Is it for weaker, elderly folks? Can pregnant women use this method of training? I’m not a doctor or anything like that, so I can’t speak to that.
If an elderly person can just get to the gym and do any kind of weight resistance training that gets them from being stagnant or out of bed, then I of course applaud that and that’s all the intensity they probably can handle in the gym. In the long run, I’d like to say my ultimate goal is to carry my bags of groceries up a flight of stairs when I’m in my 90s.
Overall, HIT works for me. I tried volume training and have concluded I don’t have the superior recovery ability (be it naturally or through drugs because I don’t take PEDs) to enjoy the benefits of working out at high volume. I never saw good results for myself doing Arnold’s killer 6 days a week, twice-a-day routine. That’s when the logic of Mentzer’s digging an ever-deepening hole into recovery abilities through high-volume, frequent workouts really struck a chord with me.
So yeah, train hard, brief, and infrequently (and get rest.)
Ah, the usual HIT sales pitch. Prove to me your gains or you’re obviously just telling lies as I’ve seen this sales pitch before.
Yeah complete bullsHITters. Have you noticed these lot always say they’ve tried Arnold routines and got zero results? Why try Arnold’s competition routine when it clearly isn’t for a 140lb guys anyway. Clueless.
Exactly. I very much doubt they even tried Arnold’s routine. I mean, why is it Arnold all the time? Why not do Frank Zane’s routine or Franco Columbu or Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman or Phil Heath? Why is it that they claim do to only Arnold’s routine? Even if they did they obviously haven’t read his books. He clearly states that you start with basic exercises and build up the volume and work capacity over time. You don’t just jump into the advanced routines. The reality is these small guys never did Arnold’s routine, they just claim they did to sell the hit kool aid. It’s their way of trying to discredit Arnold while promoting mentzer’s flawed ideas. Making out that hit is superior to conventional methods which it isn’t and has been proven to be so. After 5 decades of hit it still has a very poor success record. Hit sucks.
My understanding has changed. I’m a very competent decoder with Gematria and have proof Mike was just following a lifescript. MM is 33, masonic symbolism. Mike was a FTM like all the ”male” pro’s.
Mike played the rebel and was the other side to Weider’s high volume. Selling you stuff, of course. They always do.
HIT is dangerous and violates the nervous system. If you don’t have a big muscle fetish, you’d do much better with singles and triples. Even five reps is too much, imo. You can microload and gain strength constantly. You don’t get the horrible inflammation of HIT workouts and generally feel much better. I use this now.
20-30lbs in 3 months using HIT lol
So where are these big HITters? I’m still waiting to see these astonishing results…
Reality is most HITters look like they barely lift whilst talking about barely lifting