Is the Red Pill Right About “Holding Frame” and Lifting Weights?

| by Truth Seeker |


I have an extended experience on the love battlefield. I’ve done every form of pickup – online dating, cold approaches of strangers, warm approaches of former and present co-workers…etc.

I’ve accumulated such a lengthy track record of rejections that sometimes I would be doing a mundane task and a long-forgotten date would resurrect into my memory. As some of you know, I even wrote a fiction book describing many of my “love” stories which left me kinda empty forever.

Lately, I’ve put this battle on hold as I have no desire to accumulate more anguish. But an e-mail from a reader inspired me to share my views on the basic red pill formula for getting women, namely – holding frame + lifting weights.

Part 1: Holding Frame – Does it Work?

First, let’s explain what “frame” and “holding frame” mean as not everyone is familiar with those notions.

Think of a bicycle. Even if you don’t ride one, you probably know that the triangular piece in the middle is the frame.

The frame of a bicycle is its heart and determines its use. For example, mountain bikes and road bikes have very different frame geometry enhancing each riding style.

A broken frame makes a bicycle unusable as the entire machine loses its composure.

Your frame from a behavioral and societal viewpoint consists of principles, ideas, beliefs, desires…etc.

When you forego any of those to subsidize the desires of a woman, you are “breaking frame” and accommodating to hers.

Examples of breaking frame:

1. You are on a date. She wants to see a 3D movie, but you have no desire to do so because you work as a graphic designer, and your eyes hurt from spending days in front of the monitor. Moreover, you don’t want to burn money on tickets as you are unsure whether she won’t ghost you (disappear) afterward. Nonetheless, you fold and go to the cinema with her. You pay too.

2. You ask a woman to go out with you. She agrees but insists on meeting on a specific day since she is “super busy” and cannot fit you anywhere else.

The offer does not work for you because you have an important conference and a back workout on that day, but to please her, you wake up at five in the morning to do your training and reschedule the business meeting.

3. You are in a park with a woman. You like the atmosphere and the fresh air. But she isn’t happy and wants to go clubbing. You hate clubs because they’re too loud but go with her and even pay for her drinks.

4. A woman likes Games of Thrones. You think that the show is stupid but don’t reveal your position and watch it with her.

How do you “hold frame”?

By preserving the structural composure of your life, worldviews and your overall code of conduct under external pressure.

If you don’t want to watch movies, you don’t.

If you don’t want to drink wine, you don’t drink wine.

If you have to sacrifice too much to meet a woman, you tell her that you can’t make it even if that ends the interaction.

If a woman binds to beliefs that are the polar opposite of yours, you don’t acclimate to her ideas.

The frame effect is not limited solely to romantic communication. It manifests in every human interaction. For example, if you go back to a store to return a purchased item, your frame meets that of the shop owner. When a kid wants a new toy, its frame faces that of his parents.

What effect does frame holding have on a woman?

By holding frame, you’re signaling that you value yourself enough not to bend under the pressure of other people’s wishes. This is a demonstration of strength, manliness and domination – traits that women appreciate due to biological wiring.

In addition, men who maintain their frames show a willingness to walk away. And as we all know – people want what they cannot have. If something comes too easily to you, you take it for granted and quickly lose interest.

Many men increase the flexibility of their frame to the maximum while gullibly hoping that women will see their sacrifice as a gesture of love and respond favorably to it. But the common woman disagrees, not with her words but with her actions, and classifies sacrificial men as weak and easy. When you do everything she wants, the absence of a challenge pushes her away.

To take advantage of this principle, the red pill community advises men to wake up the alpha in them.

Does “frame holding” even work?

Yes and no.

Looking back at my own experiences, I can dig out situations when I would fail to hold my frame and get punished for it almost instantaneously. I can also find moments when I would be a rock and elevate the interest in me through stoic behavior.

Still, I wouldn’t declare “frame holding” as the secret to getting women for the following reason – it modulates attraction but does not synthesize it.

If a woman is not attracted to you in the first place, she won’t even give you an opportunity to demonstrate your frame holding abilities.

The first step is to qualify for a date. How does this happen? What are the critical factors?

1. Presence. If you don’t put yourself out there, a woman will not come to you unless you are a high-value male a.k.a. a Chad.

2. Looks. If a woman does not like you physically, there’s a very high chance that she will reject you or throw you in the so-called friend zone – an act of soft rejection combined with exploitation.

3. Money + status. Women would rarely if ever tell you that they love gold, but their actions in its presence will reveal all that you need to know. Just replace your bicycle with an expensive car, and you’ll see a whole new world.

Once you’ve passed through the filters above, you get to play for the cup. But the road to the podium is longer.

The higher your score is on the looks and wealth scale, the least you need the red pill tactics. Ironically, the more attractive you are, the more effective the teachings become.

A good-looking, tall man with a high-paying job instantly derives dividends from exhibiting alpha traits even if he’s faking them. The same cannot be said about average or below average men who neither have copious amounts of money nor a celebrity status.

When she is not attracted to you and/or does not see you as a valuable resource, frame holding loses an exponential percentage of its power as it multiplies a lower score.

You can also look at this concept from the following perspective – a joke said by a fat woman may make you laugh, but it won’t magically render her hot, would it?

The Effects of Behavioral Changes Are Overrated

The idea that a man can attract all kinds of women by altering his behavior is flawed and doesn’t take into account physical attraction and social ranks.

It’s tempting to believe that a few tweaks of your texting and overall attitude can deliver monumental results, but that is no different than expecting to become as big as a steroid-loaded man by doing squats.

Very often we blame our failure to hold frame for the lack of results, but more often than not, the problem is that we don’t rank high on the pillars of attraction [looks + money].

Yet some teachers will hide that piece of knowledge from you and convince you through manipulation that the only reason for your demise is your negative attitude and “improper” actions in the presence of a woman. They do it to keep you in their school.

You Can’t Hold Frame 24/7

Sooner or later, you’ll drop the ball. It happens to everyone regardless of what the online reports say. Weak moments are inevitable. If a woman leaves the second you underperform, she was never with you in the first place. How much could she love you if she disappears when you stop behaving like an alpha robot with no feelings?

If anything, this is a great test for her. If she helps you when you’re down, you may’ve found a unicorn.

Part 2: Lifting Weights

Body sculpting could have a beneficial effect on your dating performance. Many fatsos become handsome upon the extra lard covering their chins. Muscle mass helps too. Women like it even though they often claim otherwise.

But the effect of lifting weights is more limited than advertised.

One of the women that hurt me has a very attractive female friend – easily 9/10. That ultra-beautiful girl is now dating an ultra-skinny guy who could easily classify as anorexic. I’m an ectomorph, but I wasn’t as skinny as him even in my high school days. The guy’s calves are literally bigger than his quads. He has no chest, and it’s a mystery whether he even eats.

And yet this externally pretty princess is with him. Why?

Four explanations come to mind:

1. He has an attractive face.

I don’t like the guy at all, but I cannot deny that he has a solid facial ensemble going on.

2. He is crazy.

The social media of this dude paints him as one of those art guys who take photos of the weirdest objects on the planet. For example, he has a picture of him with the skull of an animal.

But when you are that hot, women consider similar features mysterious rather than creepy.

3. He is unpredictable.

Women love a guy who keeps them on their toes all the time. That’s what they call a “thrill”.

Boring nice dudes who are always on time and with flowers in the hands are boring and annoying. Women hate them with a passion. Female love seems to be reserved for hot psychos. That skinny brah embodies that trait too.

4. He is tall.

90% of the women I’ve met through apps have asked me how tall I am before the meeting. Women are obsessed with the classic couple silhouette and want a man who towers them even when they wear heels.

What does this tell us? There are physical characteristics that women value more than big biceps.

What are those? Face, frame, height…etc.

Having said that, the aforementioned skinny brah is not pulling hot girls because of his physique but in spite of it. If he was to bulk up and acquire a healthier body while maintaining his low body fat percentage and psychopathic exhibitionism, he will likely do even better. But I guess he doesn’t have to.

Frame Holding + Weights Cannot Fix a Broken Society [summary]

Learning how to maintain a strong composure (frame) even when you instinctively want to satisfy the demands of a woman that you like could be a very useful skill.

The same applies to lifting weights. An upgrade from the body of a World of Warcraft addict to that of a strong brah will improve your health, confidence and even looks.

But none of those can fix the broken society that you exist in. The Red Pill is a response to the state of misery, but it’s not a universal fix as it attacks the symptoms of the problem. The Red Pill may be changing the meta, but it’s not changing the game. It exists only in conjunction with the forces that it criticizes.

Furthermore, behavioral tweaks do not halt the increasing state of hypergamy that the world is reaching. To a certain extent, they enhance it as you’re molding into what women find attractive. This increases the competition baseline for everyone and solidifies the status quo. The next generation will face even harsher qualifications.

A monumental shift in society’s virtues is needed to end the virus.

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  1. Chad

    Hi man i really like your articles.Can you write about Chads ? You thoughts about them it will be interesting.How they behave how they are seen.Tnx

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      Good idea. I have to think of something.

    2. poly

      I can tell you a few things about Chad. My bigger brother is a Chad-lite and he pulled chicks whenever he wanted to. As for me, I am not as tall as he is and I have funny eyes and big ears… I am like a f***ed up version of him, and let me tell you I cannot pull any girls, only super ugly and fat ones.
      Funny story, we went to another country with a folk group and he immediately hooked up with the prettiest polish girl from another group, and he didn’t even speak a word of Polish nor English since we are Romanians.
      I am 30 now and he is 33 and married to the prettiest girl in his high school class. I kinda feel sorry for him because he didn’t take advantage of his looks as much as he could have, but who knows, maybe he did and I have no clue.

      1. get_real

        Some idiots claim that there are no Chads and it is just a made up concept of a character. Nothing could be further from the truth. Any man with a little bit of sanity knows for a fact that Chads are real and they exist. I knew some of them in my life time, one of them was my room mate during college. We were in a band together. We played in the opening ceremony of the new term and on that night, which was basically within the first week of the term, he fucked one of the most beautiful girls in the whole college. They dated for a couple months and he got bored and got another chick. I can’t tel you how easy it was for him to find a chick. It was almost like they lined up in his doorstep. I was talking to girls and they were all asking me about him. It was surreal. I, being an ugly fatso, was just watching it all in awe. Nobody back then knew about the “chad” or had any understanding of red pill. But everybody was aware of the fact that my room mate could pull any pussy he wanted. So yeah, when somebody claims that “chads do not exist”, i just want to add “my fucking ass”.

        1. get_real

          By the way, let me add this, as we age, the requirements of being a chad also changes. Back in my college years, it was all about the good looks, popularity, aloof personality and indifference. But now i am in my late thirties and being a chad requires wealth and status. Without a car and a house, you are basically a “child” to a woman in her thirties. After the so called “epiphany phase”, women start to understand that they need to hurry to put the ring on a guy who will be able to provide for them in the long term, as they start to lose their good looks. So that is when it actually becomes normal for a woman of 8/10 to be married with a guy of 5/10 “physically”. If you add in the “provisioning factor” of the guy, he actually becomes a 9, so it becomes an even match.

          1. poly

            Let me tell you another story about my Chad bro.
            One night he was effin’ a lady in the other room and having fun.
            He quickly entered my room and told me not to tell on him to his girlfriend, now his wife.
            After he finished with the lady in the other room I’ve looked out the window and she was the pretty waitress I and my friends were drooling over at the local pub.
            Never mind. Life’s different for chads.

  2. elkoraco

    I mean, one could just try dating women that are attracted to him. Not that one has to, there is a lot of merit to analyses of society based on first person experiences.

    1. get_real

      Please give me one example of a society in which women actively seek mates and relationships. I mean when was the last time you were approached by a woman to get your number? The only thing they do is to swipe left and right, both in real life and online, because the demand is “full on”. They do not need to put themselves in any kind of stressful action like asking for a date to a man, i mean why would they? Just open up an online account in any kind of social media and you will be flooded with all kinds of guys asking for your number. What you say would make sense if only we knew who is attracted to us, but unfortunately, in order to figure that out, we still need to actively approach (both online and offline) every women that is not fat, in order to get some action. If you don’t do that, and wait for that particular woman who “likes you”, it is gonna be a long wait, i tell ya.

      1. JIM

        What are you talking about? Have you ever seen a Chad in action?

        I have..I used to pal out with one many years ago. I knew what was going to happen on a night out..He would walk in a bar…and the women would look..then edge closer..then create conversation with him and then phone numbers would be given.
        He didn’t even have to try. He could sit and watch football and i could guarantee women would come to him. He could go to the toilet and twenty minute later he would be back saying 2+ groups of girls chatted him up and he had numbers…It was unbelievable. He had no technique/method at all. Didn’t lift weights. Had an average physique.
        He was good looking but most of all he was tall. Like 6ft 3″+
        He also got a lot of hate from other guys. Some tried to pick fights with him clearly jealous. It had “some ” drawbacks . But the number of women he had in his 20-30’s was unreal.
        I am afraid not so good looking guys will always have a very hard job picking women up. Hence many start binge drinking or focus on business/money making instead.

  3. Jakob

    I disagree with your last sentence. I don’t think that a shift in society’s virtues would fix anything. What we see right now is a situation in which the underlying biological factors in dating are reinforced. In the 20th century, women often couldn’t choose a partner based on looks, because they depended on the economic resources of their partner. Nowadays women are independent because they’re allowed to work, drive a car, sign contracts, etc. This allows them to choose way more freely and picky, and the suppressed biological factors come into play. We can’t and won’t go back to the patriarchic society of former times, so dating will be like that from now on. As brutal as it is, it’s kinda fair.
    I agree with everything else tho. “If a woman leaves the second you underperform, she was never with you in the first place.” – this, in particular, is very true.

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      1. That satisfaction of “underlying biological factors” leaves 80% + of men in emotional turmoil and agony. Women become spoiled creatures obsessed with the flesh. The so-called Chads are also very low on the spiritual scale. The entire society is made of people who live for nothing but to exchange selfish dopamine hits.

      Women aren’t happy because they are under the curse of having too many choices. They develop an unrealistic assessment of their own worth and spent the prime of their years on pointless activities which leave them emotionally drained and set them for a “Sex in the City” life that leads to nothing but pain.

      2. Do you really think that women in the 20s were marrying ugly men? Most were marrying men of the same social stratum. This created balance.

      3. The “independence” that you describe is possible only because men built that world. Women only work office type of jobs. You don’t see them waiting in front of the construction site to apply their CV. The second men withdraw their physical support, this entire world collapses.

      4. It’s fair? What’s fair about subjecting the vast majority of the population to suffering because they happened not to be 6’3″, blue eyed movie stars?

      This system will always fail because there isn’t enough supply of Chads. Don’t forget that two beautiful parents do not always equal beautiful offspring. Moreover, women far uglier than many men sentenced to a life of isolation get to reproduce and dilute the gene pool anyway.

      1. Jakob

        I’m a natty-or-not reader for many years now. I’ve also bought and read your book ‘A Desert in the sky’ and I could relate to many of the motives described there. But I also couldn’t help but notice that you’re – like everyone – a victim of your own confirmation bias. Everything you experienced is just your personal experience and not an actual and objective representation of the world.
        I’m not saying that everything you say is wrong or your personal experiences don’t count. Of course, they do for you. I just want you to challenge your own set of beliefs from time to time, to not find yourself living in a bubble.

        Regarding your points:

        1. Where does the number 80% come from? I don’t believe in this number. I don’t see 8 out of 10 men living without sex and relationships. I’m also not seeing 2 out of 10 men having 4+ girlfriends at the same time. It simply doesn’t add up.

        2. Many women didn’t have much to say in who they would marry. Even in the 1900s, it was oftentimes more a rational choice (often made by their parents) rather than an emotional one.

        3. Again, this is a 2-way-street. Of course, men build this world but for centuries women weren’t even allowed to read a book, certainly not taught how to. That’s of course because men had all the power which was ultimately based on physical superiority. I think you said it yourself somewhere that the era of physical work is over. The industrial revolution and now the digitalization make physical labor mostly obsolete.

        4. Of course, it’s fair. Just like the lottery is fair. No one can influence the way they are born. What isn’t fair is that the socioeconomic status of your parents dictates your whole future. This is something a fair society could fix. Fair or not – your genetics can’t be fixed.

        What’s your solution to all this? Forcing women to be in a relationship with someone they’re not physically attracted to? Would you want a girlfriend like that by your side?
        I 100% agree that Instagram, Tinder, etc. are creating an unhealthy environment in many areas – dating is one of them. But not even close to all women are using these programs frequently. Otherwise, the user counts would add up to billions.
        One last thought: The difference between an economic market and the dating market is the following: Accumulation of capital has no limit. Accumulation of ’emotional capital’ has. It’s not possible for one man to satisfy all the needs of ten women and leave 9/10 guys with empty hands.

        Keep up your work, I enjoy it. But don’t let your own brain outsmart you.

        1. Truth Seeker Post author

          Thank you for the support. I don’t have a solution. I can’t fix the world. But soon enough it will all collapse on its own and then again and again.

        2. impatient_undertaker

          You have made good points. That was my question for Red Pill movement too – even if their diagnosis is correct, then what? Current kind of egalitarian society is here to stay, since physical characteristics no longer determines success thanks to technology for the most part. Traditional model of parents choosing a husband are gone and it’s a good thing. We live in the era when we can at last choose partners freely and still complain, lol.

          Not that Red Pill is 100% correct, claims are anecdotal or mostly exaggerated, as you have pointed out.

        3. Professor Plum

          Just want to address one interesting point from Jacob:

          ” It’s not possible for one man to satisfy all the needs of ten women and leave 9/10 guys with empty hands.”

          It is in the 21st century. Why? You have to look at this in pure biological terms. The biological reality is women in the 21st century need men for one thing and one thing only – to reproduce. I suspect even this will eventually not be the case. Sex is actually just recreation to some women (and the rest don’t really like sex).

          So can a man satisfy an unlimited number of women? Yes. He can become a sperm donor. If he has chad-like sperm (is 6’3″+, successful career, half decent looking – doesn’t need to look like Brad Pitt, under 40 to get in a sperm bank) he will get a lot of takers.

          This is the 21st century truth about women and what they really want. Everything else is illusion. The age of the cave man is long gone.

  4. Zagor

    I pity you guys in the Anglosphere and the shit quality of women you have to work with. People are still more based here in Eastern Europe, although this part of the world is getting Americanised as well, it’s inevitable with the global nature of the modern world.

  5. Steven Crook

    The person who cares least about the relationship controls it. Corollary, the more invested you are in developing a relationship, the more likely you’re going to get hurt at some point.

    You don’t have to hold your frame all the time in an established relationship, but it’s important at the start when your prospective partner is going to be constantly testing the boundaries. Ground conceded early on is virtually impossible to regain.

    But, if you’re prepared to make a stand, you’ve also got to be prepared to walk away…

  6. Baron2Duke

    Overall game was created to win over the girls with a ‘yellow light on a semafor’; these ones don’t feel you as hot or cold, but somewhere on the spectrum between that. They are the majority of girls that give you a chance to talk to them in real life. That’s why frame testing comes early in the interaction, and even if you overcome it, it continues until she is sure you are the real deal or a faker. You were not her perfect type, but do have a physical trait or two that she might seem as valuable. Based on initial evaluation (mostly of your physis and image) she then gives you a chance to prove yourself if you know how to show-off your other assets (fame, status, money, pedigree, connections, physical ability,…). Your frame is just an indirect mode of delivering her these assets. if you’re a real deal, your personal frame usually holds no matter what. And that’s why fakers get always sniffled out and she finally ghosts/leaves you.

    This is the reason I started to ‘date’ only the girls that give me the ‘green light’, that is, who see me as their type. These girls are very rare, though, and are, on average, only average as the far as the looks distribution goes. I would say it happens to me once per year to meet this kind of a girl. We live in a world where everyone can create his or her own subculture, and an increase in the number of ‘identities’ causes that it is really hard to find someone who will complement you well enough. Older times didn’t have these issues, as the basic social and moral codes were more or less the same for the average herd of sheep.

  7. Lie dispeller

    you should write about the “black pill” incel sub culture of the manosphere
    much of what they preach falls into line with the pragmatic philosophy that emanates from your writing

  8. Brett

    Truthseeker is correct, again 😉.

    As a 6’1 tall pretty boy myself I have seen this first hand. Note I was even called ‘pretty boy’ by a girl in highschool.

    I am confident when I speak to woman because I know I have a nice face and I have height. Whatever I say or do is congruent with my confidence.

    If thats called ‘frame’ then so be it.

    Someone said that “whoever carea the least in the relationahip control it”. Thats very true.

    Im currenlty seeing a woman and I never text her first. She always texts me first to initiate a meetup.

    Looks are that powerful.

  9. Elvinas

    Hey, Truth Seeker, I am your website regular reader and fan probably from the first day you started post something here. Your website has quality!

    While I agree with your honest insight about how dating world works, I still fail to understand some things, would be really glad and grateful to see your insight about it the way you see it and understand.

    So, apparently I see a lot of below average or just average looking guys on the internet with attractive girls, maybe it’s laughable but I saw a lot of examples on cam model websites or amateur adult websites (if you know what I mean), just look at those websites to see I’m speaking the truth. And for me it’s so confusing to understand how a lot of attractive girls sleep with these guys if they can pursue high value male, if they say they want, dark, tall, handsome and rich guy, then why on the internet I see flabby looking or out of shape guys naked in front of the cameras with these girls, don’t get me wrong I have nothing against it, but does it mean these average looking guys, somehow get girls so easily? Or the reality is much different? Maybe they have enough money to make up for they lack of good looks or anything like that I don’t know, but is the money really a factor here? It’s very contradicting when you read or see that girls like only certain type of guys but in the wild you see something much much different, do you believe looks for a guy is the most important factor when it comes to finding a girlfriend, on the web I see something very different…

    1. Brett

      Those are porn stars. Those women are paid to have sex. They don’t care who they fuck when its on camera. All they care about is exposure, money and viewers.

      Whats hard to understand?

    2. pol

      In Romania, there is an entire industry based on camgirls. It’s entirely legal.
      That being said the couples are directed by people that know that the viewers are all losers and would get an ego boost whenever they see ugly guys with hot chicks. It makes them feel empowered, but it’s all fake.

  10. El Pacino

    Girls, girls, girls.
    Simple and easy are two different things.
    What does a woman want? Happiness (travels, shopping, beautiful house – on top of that she wants to feel secure) and Fun (parties, sex…)
    How? By finding a man that can give her what she wants, especially a handsome, good looking, tall, rich (generous) and famous man.
    Each women is on a secret quest.
    The more beautiful she is, the higher the level.
    Conclusion: You want to score high? if you don’t have what women are looking for, you better stop dreaming and find yourself others interests in Life.
    Otherwise, it is gonna be a loonnnng way til the end.
    Good luck.

  11. twp

    Most of the cam girls are from Ukraine, Columbia, Romania, Russia, The Balkan countries etc. Basically a countries with far lower living standards compared to USA and Western and North Europe, because of that social status and being a guy who got his shit together(usually having a job with above average salary, nothing too fancy) is far more important than looks. Especially in the small cities bellow 50-100k if you have 1500 euro salary, some game, a 2010 BMW or Audi(very high status cars in the Balkans and ex USRR countries), apartment(because of how communism worked everybody has some real estate inherited) you can probably land a 20-30 hot babes between your teens and 30s with just an average looks and some muscle. I mean 7-8/10 girls. Which is impossible I think USA, as far as I comprehended from all this shit going on there.

    About the cam girls. I fapped to some some of these amateur channels in porn hub and noticed that these couples are travelling a lot in Indonesia, Greece, India, etc… Which makes me think the guy is working as programmer or coming from a rich family having a local business or something, doesn’t really matter and the girl grew up in a random poor 5k population village in the center of the fucking Russian Tundra. As a good girl she went to Moscow to study in the university, but she met this cool guy living a high status live and got hooked with him. Later on they came with the idea that they can have sex in front of the camera(probably the guy’s idea). Wont be surprised of the guys manages her channel and all the money coming from it.

  12. Leandro

    You are the fox who wasn’t able to take the grapes. The parable. Narcisisticaly you judge yourself having the divine right to be a chad taking all the pussys on the sight.

    Had you the sensibility to distinguish women? Had you see something besides flesh? One should observe and absorb the psychosphere before approach a woman.

    You see, I’m not a chad. Already have my heart lacerated. But I learn the lesson. The romantics can live alone and suffer as hell, but you gain some wise.

  13. Alexander Chaney

    If you haven’t already checked out out the YouTube channel 1stman, please do. I would love to know your thoughts on his philosophy.

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