How Arnold Got His Massive, Legendary, Alien-approved Chest (and why you will never have anything like that)

| by Truth Seeker |


What’s up, fellas?

Today, I will present to you the magic ingredients behind Arnold’s massive and glorious chest. And no, there won’t be a step-by-step routine at the end because this is not how things work.

The first major factor that made Arnold the King of Pecs are his genes.

The bones and the muscle insertions of a bodybuilder form the base necessary for his potential ascension. If Arnold’s assembly of tissues was any different, he wouldn’t be Arnold the same way Brad Pitt wouldn’t be Brad Pitt without his facial structure.

The seemingly naive mainstream media will tell you semi-accurate stories claiming that Arnold prioritized his chest and had a bench press by his bed, but that is irrelevant even if it’s true. Having a thick bone architecture and high-end muscle design is more important than your training frequency and exercise selection.

Let me paint you a picture. Imagine a man who is 6’2″ and with relatively big wrists – 7-7.5 inches. Put him next to another one who is 5’7″ with 6-6.5-inch wrists. The first guy will always be bigger and more imposing thanks to his skeleton.

Guess, what? Arnold had the frame necessary to become a superstar bodybuilder. Plus his pec insertions allowed him to reach incredible muscle fullness.

Many men trained as hard if not harder than Arnold but didn’t reach his level. A few got close, and some spectators can argue that their idols were robbed, but once alone, even the Mentzer fans admit that Arnold had the best genetics out of the line-up.

You may not like Arnold based on his personality, but your preferences do not change the fact that he was gifted genetically.

Weider was a shrewd businessman. He saw that Arnold is the best overall and invested in him. It wasn’t a coincidence. It wasn’t left to chance. It was a genetic destiny.

Why wasn’t Franco the chosen one? Because he was too short.

Why wasn’t Lou Ferrigno the chosen one? He has a massive frame, but Arnold has more charisma.

Why wasn’t Mentzer the one? He was too stubborn and detached.


Successful People and Hard Work

The so-called successful people often undermine the importance of genetics while amplifying the effectiveness of effort. Sometimes I wonder whether they are lying to the crowd, themselves, both, or are simply delusional and really believe this nonsense.

They will fill your head with stories about waking up early, living like a monk and working five different jobs while being in the gym two times a day. I have news for you. More often than not, the official PR story and the real version are different. But even if they coincide 100%, none of this matters because the true engine are the genes of the person in question and his environment.

Many bodybuilders were destined to lose to Arnold because they didn’t have the right starter pack. Waking up at 3 in the morning, training five times a day and eating the purest Argentinian beef coupled with Vince Gironda’s fertilized eggs wouldn’t have made a difference in terms of placing. Honestly, even steroids don’t change the picture. They amplify you but do not change you structurally.

Fate & Timing

If Arnold was born today, he would not become the Arnold that we know simply because the environment cannot produce him.

The bodybuilders from the 70s were pioneers. They were the first to popularize bodybuilding. They were special. They had muscles before it became popular.

Today, the crowd is desensitized as it always happens when the numbers increase. The digital infrastructure is to blame for that too. When a muscle hero emerges on Instagram, he isn’t unique. He is one of many.

Arnold and his friends had the opportunity to benefit from the virgin effect and created a stronger bond with the crowd.

The virgin effect is very simple to comprehend – the first is always remembered. After a woman has been with a few too many men, nobody is memorable.

This principle describes the importance of timing too.

An idea backed by a lot of work can fail spectacularly if the timing is wrong. The same applies to many successful businesses. They owe their glory to perfect timing rather than a mythical work ethic or vision.

The winners don’t like to talk about this topic because it makes their victory look like the result of destiny rather than superpowers. They prefer to think that their accomplishments were solely based on effort… that the losers could have done the same if they’d tried harder. Sometimes it’s true – the winners win because they do more, but many cannot even qualify for the show because they do not have the right genetics for the task.

Ultimately, a combination of both – genetics and timing – made Arnold the most popular bodybuilder on the planet.

The principles described above are important to know if you want to understand what actually happens during the reaction that produces success. If a man does not have good genetics for something, he cannot beat those who do. This is especially true for activities like bodybuilding that are less about skill and more about looks.

I am sorry if the trainers teaching you how to shape your pectorals with specific exercises for the lower, middle and upper portion have omitted this lesson.


The Crowd Consciously Rejects the Idea Of Genetic Predetermination while Supporting It Subconsciously

I don’t know if you are familiar with the movie Hell or High Water, but you are about to be anyway.

The film presents the story of two brothers trying to pay off a loan to a bank by robbing its branches. The ultimate goal is to keep their land because it’s loaded with oil.

The two brothers are very different from each other. One is a family hard-working man while the other is a lone wolf who just got out of prison. The differences do not end here.

One of them is handsome and tall. The other one is shorter, less attractive and balding. One of them sacrifices himself so that the other can have it all. Guess, who is the sacrificial lamb?

Of course, it’s the shorter and less appealing one. As a result of the sacrifice, the more attractive brother gets to keep the land and give it to his kids who are “set for life” thanks to the oil well in their backyard. Not only that but the more charming brother doesn’t kill anybody. His big bro does all the killings so that his good-looking sibling can preserve his karmic purity and spend the oil money with smaller remorse around his heart.

Why weren’t the roles reversed?

The classic explanation would be that the hotter man had children and therefore something to live for.

Ok. I get it. Let’s rephrase the question – why wasn’t the more attractive actor playing the role of the brother who dies in the end?

Because the crowd wouldn’t want it, and the directors know it. If the roles of the actors were reversed, it would have felt weird, wouldn’t it? Can you imagine a top tier guy sacrificing himself? What a waste!?

The ladies wouldn’t have been happy. They want to see the beautiful stallion make it through because they see his genetic make-up as precious.

People will reject this idea on the record, but given a mask, some may support it.

About 2 years ago, I was in contact with a woman working in a financial institution. She was not attracted to me but thought that I can connect her to another man. I actually couldn’t. I’d only see the guy in photos. That same woman wrote to me the following: “We are wired to like the most handsome ones, Bambi”. The ironic part is that she was not pretty herself. She was ugly.

At least, she was honest. She didn’t want me. She wanted the guy with better visual qualities. More often than not, the crowd does not admit to this principle because it hurts.

People expect the more attractive person to win and attribute traits to him or her that he or she may not embody fully. This is called the halo effect.

Arnold had plenty of halo going for him. Since he had the best overall package, the spectators add a sense of peculiarity and a special polish to everything he does. It just feels different and better because it’s Arnold – the guy with the ultimate bodybuilding genes.


Steroids are an important part of the equation. You cannot be 230lbs and lean naturally unless you carry the skeleton of a dinosaur. Even if you have the best genetics in the world and follow the most scientific diet, you cannot win against competitors who aren’t natural. Yet many naive souls still believe the fairy tale that Coleman turned pro naturally.

If you think that the bodybuilders from the 70s were natural ponies, you are late to the party. During those years, the steroid industry was peaking.

Why you will never have a chest like Arnold’s

It’s really simple.

1. You don’t have Arnold’s genetics.

2. You may be natural.

It has nothing to do with special routines and exercises. The guys from Arnold’s era trained in a very similar fashion – high volume, barbells…etc. Nevertheless, he dominated and had the best chest on stage. It wasn’t a training program or a technique. It was all about genes put in the right context and amplified by anabolics and lifting.

Moreover, Arnold’s appearance was heavily benefiting from the halo effect and exercised an influence on the crowd that common men cannot produce. There were other competitors with great pectoral development, but “Arnold is Arnold”.


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  1. Oz

    “Weider was a shrewd businessman”

    No he wasn’t. He was a scam artist.

    (But then, as someone replied to me about the man on FB recently: “one man’s scam artist is another man’s hustler, dreamer, believer. Regardless …”)

    1. Hoyos

      There are a LOT of scam artists. Weider was really, really good at it.

      I’m not being facetious, a lot of people think that being a crook is the way to the top, but crime works like everything else, some are better at it than others and more likely to prosper. Just being a crook doesn’t cut it, you have to be a great crook.

      1. Oz

        Correct. Weider was a MASTER scam artist.
        But in reality, many people in the fitness (and beauty) industry are really just old fashioned snake oil merchants.

        1. Oz

          Weider created this belief that Arnold S had dedicated his whole life to BB, and because of this ended up big, and then, rich and famous.

          (In reality, Arnold S was only ever using his genetic gifts in BB as a means of getting into movies.)

    2. Trey

      Arnold was also a shrewd businessman even before becoming a star.

      Per an interview with Tim Feriss….”I quickly developed and traded up my buildings and bought more apartment buildings and office buildings on Main Street down in Santa Monica and so on. … I became a millionaire from my real estate investments.”

      Thanks to the income he generated through his side hustle, Schwarzenegger had the financial freedom to focus on his acting career, and the rest is history. One should note, that the majority of his financial success was simply due to market timing. His real estate investments exploded in value annually simply due to growing property demand in California. We are talking 300% growth annually for several years. This is unheard of today.

      So not only did he have primo genetics, he was financially free to focus on the lifiting lifestyle (and pay for steriods) without any other pressures of commitment from daily life.

      TLDR: I am not trying to take away from his success, but just know he hit the trifecta.
      Arnold was rich, lucky, and handsome with perfect lifting genetics. If any of those were missing, he would not be the icon he is today.

  2. Eric

    This reminds me of one of my favorite rappers NF…although lyrically he is a genius & is light-years above anyone else in the industry, because he is the wrong shade of color (white guy) he will never be in the conversation as one of the best. Genetics are everything…
    Great post.

  3. Robert

    Weider, the original GFP pimp of bodybuilding

  4. joe santus

    If Sergio Oliva had had skin the color of Arnold, had had Arnold’s aptitude and cunning for business success, and, had agreed to cooperate with Joe Weider, then Sergio might well have been The Pioneer They All Know Now.

  5. PeopleLietoThemselves

    What you said about attractiveness also applies to women too. I’m 5’5. Since I was 18, I’ve had an enormous makeover. People tell me I am a genuine 8.5 or 9 now. When I was a teenage I was considered the ugliest girl in my school.

    Then I read the biography of a woman named Cindy Jackson. A lot of it probably made up, but enough of it is probably true (ie the parts that matter). She got 1$00,000 USD worth of plastic surgery and went from being ugly to dating Princess Diana’s ex boyfriend and various rock stars (it’s in the tabloids).

    So I lost 50 lbs, grew out my hair very very long, spent tons of money on cosmetics and teeth, and got three plastic surgeries. No one can tell I had them done. It’s a lie that all plastic surgery looks fake. Plastic surgery to women is roughly like steroids are to men. Not 100%, but then no analogy is perfect.

    Now my life has changed. I make great money, and have my pick of men (who I try to treat well believe it or not). I have the feeling I can tell people outrageous lies that they will believe. People care about appearance. You are right. I love your writing, keep it up.

    -Love from Canada

  6. René

    An honest woman is very rear these days. Thank you for sharing your red pilled story.

  7. PeopleLietoThemselves

    Thanks for the kind words Renee. I do tell the truth to people about the world, and they dislike me for it. There are a few big lies being circulated to women. One of them is “confidence matters”. That is a scam. They attribute to the improvement in how people treat you after having plastic surgery to improved confidence. In reality, attractive people tend to be confident. Confident people are not actually attractive in and of itself. Believing you will attract more people by having more confidence is like believing painting racing stripes on your car will make you go faster.

    As an aside, when I was younger, I was considered intellectually advanced for my age. But I was almost obese and had coke-bottle glasses and short hair. No one recognizes me anymore if I meet them on the street. I was a nice person and I was smart, and people acted disgusted with me. I was punished for the smallest infractions. I was even chased out of nice stores. Now people fawn over me and I get accolades for saying something just a little bit bright.

    The red pill for women, and something that has been obvious for ages and has simply been obscured by feminism, is that looks matter and being a slut is bad. You should try to aim to be as attractive as possible, and you should not be easy. Regardless of what you want out of life, as long as you aren’t a lesbian, a woman can only gain and not lose from those things.

    As an aside, a lot of red pilled males grumble about the seeming ease by which ugly females obtain higher level males. Yes that is true, but they are missing the full picture.

    The big picture is that the market for men who want to have sex and have fun is very very big. The market for women who want to do the same is limited. Most ugly women can pull a handsome men for a few months. The question is whether or not the handsome men will marry them. To men, sex is rare and hard to obtain. If an ugly woman can pull a hot man, these men are filled with jealousy. They don’t comprehend that what women desire is commitment, because to a woman, that is harder to obtain than sex. On the flip side, men who generally are willing to commit and settle down, increase their odds of obtaining a higher quality female. Of course these are just generalities, and I could be very wrong.
    -Love from Canada

  8. PeopleLietoThemselves

    As another aside (it seems I like them). I was considered ugly for the first 20 years of my life. I spent about 30 000 modifying my appearance. All my plastic surgery has been on my face. I am now 31. When I show people my old photos, people audibly gasp. I like to use that moment to sort men I date. there are two types of male reactions; one type of men will claim I had kindess in my eyes and will say I was just growing up. This group tends bs and lie. I tend to resent this group of men as time goes by, it’s something I noticed. The second group of men tell me I looked awful and admit they are shocked by how well my work turned out. This group tends to turn into actual relationships.

    1. René

      Thank’s again to be honest with us and by the wat, it’s René, not Renee, cuz I am a male ??.
      Ohh… BTW.. When I play some online games and put my name as username, there is a chance to guys help me to level up my heroes because they think I am a girl.

    2. René

      And when you said 30.000, it was that you spend 30.000 dollars? ???
      I knew that plastic surgery is expensive. I would like to see pictures “befor and after” with you.

      How ever I am glad that the finally you find your the solution of your problem. You find your peace. ☺️
      I believe, people who say plastic surgery is superficial, they lie to them selfs or have now idea how life works these days.

  9. PeopleLietoThemselves

    Oh sorry for getting your name wrong. I realized that after. Rene. Pleased to meet you. The issue I dont want the pictures traced to the kinds of things I say on the Internet. If there was a way to DM you I would. thanks so much.

    1. Daniel Bogdanov

      Really appreciate your story and reasoning. I’m interested to see your transformation (before and after photos). Could you please DM me to – (thats my reserve e-mail)

      -Greetings from Ukraine

  10. PeopleLietoThemselves

    and yes it was 30 000 canadian dollars. but that doesn’t include the money I spent on cosmetic dentistry, botox (to decrease the wideness of my jaw) and deep chemical peels.

    If I had committed a crime when I was 19, and there was no DNA evidence, just pictures, I would absolutely get away with it.

    plastic surgery is like steroids for men because:
    1. it works
    2. it’s powerful and changes people’s perception of you
    3. it’s really really expensive. it’s not just the procedure cost itself. you need to take a lot of time off to recover
    4. it’s dangerous in the sense that like taking steroids, you can die
    5. it’s so common but no one wants to admit it
    6. people are so used to seeing it, they can no longer tell a “job” anymore
    7. like steroids, your mileage will vary depending on the person. some girls get a nose job and it doesn’t do a thing. I got one and i went from a pretty girl (I already lost the weight and grew out my hair at the point) to people telling me I should consider an acting side job. Marilyn Monroe got a chin implant and it made her an icon.
    8. like steroids, because people can see the bad jobs, they assume they can tell all the work done. some people take steroids and look like freaks for life. others take it and become Arnold.
    9. you need plastic surgery to win a beauty pageant like you need steroids to win a muscle contest

    I only realized these parallels when I read truthseekers work.

    1. Brett

      Just curious as to why you would still get plastic surgery if in your own words after you lost weight and grew out your hair you were ‘pretty’?

      Changing the superficial never creates any long term relief from pain.

      People might treat you differently now, but there will always be women prettier than you (naturaly). I am not saying this as a way to be mean, but rather as a fact of life. Another reason I am mentioning that is because you seem to be confusing plastic surgery and steroids as similarities. I will explain how.

      Steroids alter a man/or woman and turn him/her into something he/she could of never become without them. Naturally no one can reach this level. Plastic surgery changes ones appearance, but there will always naturally be other women who are still pretier.

      The fact that you have had so many surgeries to your face illustrates to me that you are obsessed with perfection. That is a game that by our human nature we are destined to lose at.

      One day you will get old just like every other women does, even your plastic surgey won’t be able to hide that. When that happens all these men that float around you will somehow find themselves leaving you for younger women. They will cast you aside. This loyalty you speak of, its not in our blood as men. Even if you secure a man and have his babies, all the looks you get of admiration from strangers, even from your husband, will day by day, become less and less prominant, until there are none at all. Can you handle being cast aside like that, gradually of course?

      Of course you can always get more plastic surgery when you reach your late 40’s and lie to yourself that everything is the same as it was, but somehow this never suffices.

      Just like steroids, once they are out the picture everything changes. The crowd is no longer so ‘understanding’. The same applies to looks. If looks alone are what have transformed your life, and made the crowd ‘appreciate’ you, then by looks alone will you fade away.

  11. René

    Perhaps you should try becoming an actress

  12. PeopleLietoThemselves

    I work in political strategy now. It’s a bit like show business. I wish you well and thanks for reading my thoughts.

  13. PeopleLietoThemselves

    Interesting comments Brett. I’m not obsessed with perfection actually. it’s just that every subsequent surgery I got treated better. I planned everything out I would have done to my face. I worked under the assumption that a 7 would get treated better than a 6, and an 8 better than a 7. Before the surgeries I was a 7. After, I was considered very beautiful. not being told on the Internet, people stopping me and telling me to my face.

    When I was a 7 I got a good. The moment I became a 9 my income increased 50% and its like my life just became so easy.

    perhaps it was just a coincidence
    The world is a harsh and shallow place Brett. I’m merely telling it how it is. hate the game not the player.

    1. Brett

      That “don’t hate the player, hate the game” really brought a tear to my eye.

      Where I am from we call female players sluts.

      Yes the world is harsh, thats why no one survives. Whats your point sweetie pie?

      I stated your looks will fade, with or without plastic surgery and you proceded to tell me that you planned everything out and that the world is harsh. Where is the correlation?

  14. PeopleLietoThemselves

    as an aside, I’ve made enough money now I don’t really need a man. Im in a relationship now with a man who knew me and loved me before all my surgeries. surprised? yeah I get hit on all the time, but I choose to stay with him because he does love my soul. he does say I am more beautiful after the surgeries but he even loved me when I was a bit chubby. we have our on and off times but we in it for the long haul.

    all your comments go out the window.

    1. Brett

      Why are you getting so triggered from a internet comment?

      What a coincidence he is with you and you look attractive and have money. Sounds like a perfect setup for a guy.
      I’m sure he does love what he can’t see.

      Yes guys hit on attractive women a lot. Are you done stating the obvious now?

  15. René

    So, guys, if you want women, go on roids and make money to increase your social status.

    I hate living in a blue pilled world, better to see the painful truth.

  16. René

    So guy, if you want women, take roids and make money for your social status.

    1. Brett

      Yes Mr Red Pill, you said that already and everyone here has heard you loud and clear.

  17. PeopleLietoThemselves

    Brett, I see your point. I think some of them are good. You can’t ride on looks forever. I get what you’re saying. and some of my comments, if you didn’t know me, look like I was trying to imply I was trying to ride on them. what I failed to properly communicate was that, despite the fact I was smart and I was gelt I was a reasonably decent person, I only really got to where I wanted to go because I modified my appearance. That’s all. Like Rene said, that’s the way the world works. I’m just telling the truth, the way I see it.

    and as an aside, you know, the guy I’m with right now, he did leave me before the surgeries, so six years ago to go to dubai. now he’s back because oil has tanked. would he have left me if I looked like I do now, back then? who knows. makes you wonder.

    as an aside, yes I know I will age. you’re right. it won’t last forever. I don’t need to be told that. what I do is I’m trying to use this perishable thIng to try to build a foundation. ive used it to meet a wider variety of men (because I did date after he left me), and to build a career and network. no its not nice. but I’m just red pIlling all you guys from a woman’s perspective. that’s it. the truth is if you modify your appearance, the world will treat you better. whether you find it spiritually wrong or not, whether you should, that’s a decision for you to make. I’ve made mine. and I respect your opinion. I admit you did touch a nerve, but that’s my own problem. it’s because I know how I was treated before, and what I have now, and how I got what I have now wasn’t easy. 11 years ago people were mocking me in the street and calling me ugly to my face. the only job I could get was fast food. I had a bf at the time who constantly cheated on me. that’s like as a 2 or 3. now life is different and I suffered for it. that’s just how the world it. again, thanks to both you guys for telling me your thoughts.

    1. Brett

      I know that getting told you are ugly is not at all pleasant. It can make you depressed and hate yourself.

      Those people that told you that you looked ugly (in the street), well they must have been very insecure about their own looks to put it mildly. Most people are very insecure, especially women, which is why women put each other down so much.

      However, there are people born without limbs, born blind etc. So we should be grateful for what we do have (I know its easier said than done).

      Yes I do know that life is ALOT better for attractive people. We live in a narcissistic society where everyone chases money, sex and power.
      Sex sells and nobody likes a ugly face.

  18. PeopleLietoThemselves

    you’re right Brett and that’s why I paid all that money and took all that risk. I don’t think the people who told me they were ugly all had bad self esteem to be honest. that’s why people often say, but there is a point where you are mocked by everyone. my parents told me I was ugly too. even my mother. not constantly, but they would make unkind remarks. even relatives. I remember going to a school dance, excited because I was invited by a boy, and he then laughed at me in front of everyone. Im not trying to imply my suffering was worse than a disabled person, I’m just trying to say what happened to me divorced of any kind of comparison with anybody else. I don’t know how it’s like to be blind or in a wheelchair. I do know how it’s like to be extremely ugly. here’s a description of how ugly I was:

    I was 165 lbs at 5″5 (now I’m like 112)
    I had a massive overbite and yellow teeth
    one of my eyes was half closed (first surgery I ever did)
    I was missing half my right eyebrow naturally (got a tattoo for symmetry)
    my hair was short and frizzy (fixed it and now it’s waist length)
    my vision was so bad so I wore the highest strength prescription glasses (now I wear space age contacts)
    nose was crooked and bulbous (rhinoplasty)
    face was fat (weight loss and buccal fat removal)
    square jawed (botox and jaw shave)
    keratosis pilaris over my whole body (removed via laser despite what doctors say. smooth skin now)
    premature aging of the forehead (mild botox and laser)
    acne and acne scarring (chemical peels)
    weird hairline (lasered off and looks perfect)
    fat legs (weight loss)

    so I basically went around life looking like that for the first 20 years. I remember one time I forgot my bus pass and I was treated like an evil criminal. I forgot my bus pass a few years back (I couldn’t drive due to a medical problem at the time) and I got off with a warning. being ugly could be considered a form of handicap in some sense, a mild one.

    1. Brett

      That description does sound quite terrible.

      I don’t know you, but I do know what its like to mocked jusy for having some small part of you thats not perfect, so I can only imagine the pain you have felt and the mockery you must have gone through with all those ‘imperfections’.

      When I was in school my friends used to call me names because my hair was slightly red. Now my hair has naturally gone brown but I used to hate my hair (even though my hair was only mildly red). I used to put lost of gel on my hair to darken it.

      I also used to be insecure about the small gap between my front teeth and my one skew tooth, but now i just think of it as me being unique and not having that fake hollywood smile that everyone these days seems to have.

      Atleast those 20 years would have hardened you and made you stronger. Perhaps I have been speaking from the perspective of a attractive person so I do not really know what its like to live with a face and body that is very ugly.

      Also, a womans looks is extemely important to her success, both in attracting a mate and in the workplace. Men do have more leeway when it comes to looks because our money or status can make up.

      My younger brother althougn he is good looking and tall had very oily skin and acne on his body. I saw how his quality of life changed after he took high doses of Vit A, and now he has clear skin. He used to get depressed alot because of it, now he has a girlfriend and is much happier.

      By the way, I was wearing glasses to during college, but I found they actually weaken ones eyes and so I stopped wearing them and my eyes actually got stronger again. Perhaps spend 20 – 30 minutes a day when you are at home without your contacts on, and see if you can slowly strengthen the muscles.

  19. PeopleLietoThemselves

    actually the issue with my eyes isn’t just myopia, I’ve got really severe astigmatism too.

    yeah and that’s the thing, it’s really easy for normal people to accuse me of vanity because I kept enhancing my appearance past the point of “good enough” but seriously, if you found something that worked and gave you good results you would keep going too! it’s like being super poor, then finding an oil well in the back of your house (weird analogy I know). would you stop drilling once the house was paid off? or would you keep going as long as you could?

    right now in terms of surgery, I almost done. I might do some things for age prevention, but it would be so so stupid to do more especially since I’ve gotten so lucky. I’ve probably reached my maximum. Im no supermodel but I’m better than average. I do face some rejections by some guys who are worried their future kids will look like natural me, but it’s the price I pay lol

    btw, you and rene seem really cool, and I’m glad to have spoken to you both. it’s really nice that we turned a negative interaction earlier into something a lot better. I love moments like that. of course, we probably all share at least a little bit of the same mindset. we are reading this site!

    1. Brett

      Yes I am glad we could turn this conversation around.

      If you are attractive by societies standards and men turn their heads to look at you then I wouldn’t go under the knife anymore. Just focus on other aspects of your life.

      A friend of mine had sex with a woman that later turned out to be a man. It was devastating for him. I met her (him) and I could not tell at all that she was a he (his hands were small like a females). He had had a sex change and plastic surgery. So even though its almost undetectable (his sex change was, his plastic surgery was abit noticeable), perhaps to the trained eye its not, I would advise you too leave your face alone now and just move on from it.

      Im sure you have heard the saying “perfection is in the eye of the beholder”. Its true.

      I think its admirable that you show men how you looked before your surgeries. Most women would not do that. I think it shows courage. Besides it not like you say to them “hey look here, see I used to be a man” (as a fellow man I can attest thats our worst nightmare as men).

      Perhaps check out the nattyornotforum. We have a similiar mindset there and discuss dating, philosophy and sometimes politics. We fight argue a bit but overall we have a general consensus.

      I have got no idea what a perfect waist to hip ratio is. Yes the way society works is cruel and unfavourable for most. But we can’t change the system.

      I am curious as to how you became a reader of nattyornot? Since most of us are male natural lifters that got sick and tired or the lies of the fitness industry, how did you get red pilled so to speak.

  20. PeopleLietoThemselves

    on another note the reason why I got so much out of my plastic surgery was because I actually do have good bone structure. good bone structure that was hidden by obesity, bad skin and superficial asymmetry. for example, I have a perfect waist to hip ratio, and high cheekbones. the plastic surgeons I visited said I had excellent facial bone structure and said they were excited to see the final results because they felt what they did would actually make a big difference.

    I am glad I got lucky and I do not actually put a premium on my appearance in day to day interactions. I view my appearance as a tool to help me get what I want out of life, not as a means to an end. I think it’s sad this is how society is, but I work with the rules not against them.

  21. PeopleLietoThemselves

    oh well im into fitness too and I was frustrated I couldn’t get the body in the magazines. then I stumbled upon this. ignore the second post. I thought the first post didn’t go through.

    1. Brett

      Oh okay, yeah you cant have those bubble butt glutes naturally while having that slim waist and visible abs. I suppose we all found nattyornot because of the same reasons then.

      Not sure what post you are referring too.

  22. PeopleLietoThemselves

    the reason I’m honest is because , since my face is fundamentally different from the one I was born with, they should know about it. I would rather get rejected in the first 2 dates then after 3 years when they dig up my high school photos. I’ve revealed this part of my to every guy within the first two dates, and I’ve yet to meet one who wasn’t shocked. the quality of my surgery was really good, and I paid for it all on my own. I have a strong work ethic, and I gave up things like eating out, drinking and partying to save and afford these procedures. I didn’t get some guy or my parents to pay for it. like I say, my face is fake, my personality is not I’m ridiculously blunt and honest and will tell guys it’s not working the moment I feel something…isn’t working.

    1. Brett

      So what is the rejection to success ratio for you then?

      We care for the appearance of a person a lot more than their personality. Men and women, there are no exceptions. But you know this already of course. Like you said, its just the price you have to pay.

  23. PeopleLietoThemselves

    I would say out of all the dates I’ve been on, maybe 20 in the time I wasn’t with my current significant other…it’s a guess mind you, 2 of them felt disturbed. a bunch were shocked and needed time to process it. One very big exception, actually a very successful self made guy, we didn’t work out because of other reasons, actually thought it was the greatest thing ever. he said it showed courage, determination, planning and risk taking, all traits he admired in people. he said he wanted to get serious with me just on the basis of that. the guys that usually get super disturbed I find usually are these super traditional guys who abhor all physical modifications. think of the guy who goes to church and plays checkers for fun. most guys need time to process it; but they don’t care as long as they can’t tell. and since I don’t have visible scars and I got good, conservative work, it’s “out of sight, out of mind”.
    yeah I have a good body, I’m actually a mesomorph oddly enough, but I’m nothing like a fitness model. that’s for sure.

    1. Brett

      Well that probably explains your former square jaw line then.
      Most guys aren’t even like the female fitness models.

      20 dates seems a bit low for a attractive women though. I mean on tinder even the bottom feeders in the female department get lots of matches and dates. I take it you were super selective with your suiters?

  24. PeopleLietoThemselves

    I actually didn’t keep track. I met them on online dating, but I never met them right away. I’d always want a week of conversation before I met up. honestly 20 is some random number I picked. I have no idea. It should also be said I didn’t tell each and every single one I had this done to my face. I know it seemed like I implied it before, but what I meant to say was out of the pool of guys I liked, I would tell them quickly. but if a date was going nowhere, I wouldn’t share that info. out of all of the dates that I felt were going somewhere, two guys stick out in my mind for really not liking the plastic surgery thing. and keep in mind, like you probably, I would go on dating blitzes, where I would feel more social and meet more men in a few weeks. then if nothing panned out, I would simply lay low. dating is a lot of energy. I’m an introvert by nature I don’t usually like to meet tons of people, all the time. and yeah, I used to have an enormous jaw. I picked different plastic surgeon for different procedures.
    i actually got my eye done right away when I turned…maybe 22 so I forget to count that as a plastic surgery procedure, oddly enough.

    1. Brett

      Oh okay. So if half your one eyebrow was missing and your one eye was half shut, were you in a accident or something?

      I believe no one is fully exro or fully intro. I can stay at home for weeks sometimes and not go out. On other occasions I can be quite talkative and high energy in social situations (not even when girls are around, just with anybody) even if i’m sober.

      But it is good that you are a bit intro. The world has enough attention seeking loud people. Or perhaps that is just the persona they like to portray.

      Yes I stopped using tinder. Perhaps a paid for dating app or website would of been better for me. I did create a profile on a paid app (I forget the name, I think it was Zoosk or something like that) and I actually got some good attention there, but since I hadn’t paid I couldn’t communicate.

      I have a similiar reaction to relationships that I deem are not going anywhere. But that could be influenced by my own insecurity sometimes (fear of letting someone get too close).

  25. PeopleLietoThemselves

    as an aside, I’ve actually never used tinder. I’ve stuck to traditional paid online dating. I prefer there be a cost to access it because it shows minimum financial means.

    1. CJ

      PeopleLie I didnt waste my time reading your posts but from what I skimmed you seem to have a very pretentious and conceited not-as-smart-as-you-think-you-are attention whore online presence. Might be wrong, but probably not.

      1. 40%lard

        She is smart enough to reverse Brett’s argument and coax home to her side. The complete opposite of someone not even bothering to read the comments and understand that Brett went for the same play and now he is almost a feminist. Good job keyboard warrior. (I am also attention whore)

  26. Chris Hutchins

    PeopleLietoThemselves – love your input here.

  27. Glove

    Coming back to the topic. Schwarzenegger and Oliva were charismatic superstars till middle of the 70ties. Zane and Nubret belonged to the more aesthetic group of BBler. A super bodybuilder was a man who is more or less forgotten today: Rick Wayne.

    1. joe santus

      Yep, Wayne.

      Another forgotten, who placed 2nd in the first three Mr Olympias, and whom some believe should have edged out Scott in at least one of the first two, is Harold Poole.

      1. Glove

        Yes. Harold Poole. I remember him.
        Besides of Superstars like Reeves, Park, Pearl I found photos of Earl Maynard. I remember I saw him in some movies.
        In the 50ties and 60ties BB was not popular in Europe. England was an exception. I think it really started after the Mr. Olympia 1972 in Essen/Germany.
        Some elder BBler I met later told me about that legendary show.

  28. Mark Thompson

    Id say Dwayne Johnson reminds me of Arnold, but because of his chest as that isn’t his strong point – but timing, the size of his frame, good business decisions. Just a shame the guy doesn’t admit to using steroids, being almost 50 its the only way he can have that amount of mass, considering when he was younger he looked more like a ballet dancer in comparison to now! Thing is im natty, my glutes and legs are nothing special my chest has only shown any promise since I stopped bench pressing and started dips instead! I think a lot of these guys don’t always tell us the whole truth about certain things, come up with these fantastical ideas about how and why they got where they did, when the reality is as long as the work and basics are done, the end results are pretty predetermined. Then again regarding genetics, although they were more than good enough, his legs hardly stood out in comparison did they? You can be genetically gifted in one area often at the expense of somewhere else in terms of something that stands out.

  29. Steve

    Arnold’s chest was a function of favourable genetics and hard work. Period!
    Going wider: Arnold was successful because of his winning attitude and his incredible work-ethic; everything else followed. When Arnold saw someone better than him, he tried to learn from the and emulate them; not look jealously at them and accuse them of not being Natty!
    He took every opportunity given to him and created many more for himself. He worked multiple jobs, he set up a mail-order company, he learned about investing and invested his money and most of all, he knew his worth. Even as a Hollywood star, no one worked as hard to sell a movie to the public than Arnie; he always gave value for money. If Arnold was around now, maybe he wouldn’t win Mr. O’ but there is no doubt he would succeed in life.
    Successful traits lead to success and Arnold is hard-wired with them; luck had nothing to do with it. Arnold recommended Lou for the Hulk after he was deemed too short; Lou had a head start on Arnold in Hollywood. Franco was a better strongman. Zane had a prettier physique. Dave Draper had better movie star looks. Arnold came out ahead.
    Arnold is self-made and is what a winner looks like.

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