5 Reasons Why Dorian Yates’s HIT Training Is a Low IQ Doctrine That Only Works If You Inject Religiously (HIT tears are delicious)

| by Truth Seeker |

Dorian Yates has no idea how to train…naturals that is.

The Internet is filled with clips of him trashing volume training, but the reality is painfully different, if you’re natural, of course.

Here are 5 (high IQ) reasons why Dorian Yates’s H.I.T. methods are nothing but pretentious nonsense that doesn’t work unless you’re blasting a glorious amount of anabolic steroids that functionally “bribe” the cells of your body to synthesize more protein.

If you’re natural, the only things that you will gain from HIT are weird grimaces while you train and a destroyed CNS.

Let’s hit it.

This is how the average HIT-brah will look after reading this post.

1. H.I.T. Is Too Easy On The Body

Say…what?

Yeah, I said it.

HIT-brahs always brag about how HIT is really difficult. Yates does the same, but the reality is painfully different.

What is it?

HIT = EZ on The BODY, Hard On The Brain

You see, the brain is the smartest organ in your body, allegedly, but it can be tricked.

So, here’s what’s happening.

During a hard set, the CNS signals to the brain that the organism is under fire. So, you naturally conclude that you’re working hard.

And that’s the case, but only for 1 set.

Then you rest…way too long.

The body is hit (lol), but each muscle group does not receive enough stimulation throughout the entire week to grow.

However, since every day is CNS day, you conclude that you’re working hard when in fact, the overall BODILY fatigue is quite low.

To grow muscle, you need to do more WORK. It’s that simple.

Back in the day, some guy asked Mentzer why his calves weren’t growing, so Mentzer told him that he was overtraining them and advised a reduction of calf training frequency to once every 14 days. (I read that in a magazine.)

This isn’t very intelligent advice on Mentzer’s part.

Why?

Doing a few hard sets for the calves (one of the toughest muscles in the body) and then going for a 2-week vacation is akin to expecting to raise your IQ by reading for 40 seconds a day.

In reality, if you have a lagging muscle group, you have to do the exact opposite, namely – increase the frequency and volume.

In other words, you must train it HARDER.

And harder does not mean one look-at-me-I-am-puking set, but multiple “money sets” done more frequently.

This is true for unnaturals and even truer for naturals.


Dorian’s HIT contains slightly more volume, but the frequency will not be enough unless you’re genetically gifted everywhere.


“But have you watched Blood n’ Guts,” says the dreamer.

Yes. I have. If you mute the annoying screaming, the training doesn’t look as tough as you think it is.

I am not kidding. I’ve been to gyms where average people who have regular jobs train just as hard and with even more frequency.

2. Everyone Tries HIT and Quits Not Because The Program Is Hard…but

HIT has been here a long time. Virtually every serious muscle constructor has tried it.

And yet the methodology is still not popular. Why?

The HIT fetishists will say “Because it’s super hard and people can’t handle it”.

That’s incorrect. The true answer is:

Because it’s not as effective as other methods.

(don’t write angry comments, just call the police, brahs)

Don’t you think that if HIT was all that effective, the pros would have switched a long time ago?

Professional bodybuilders and other hypertrophy-addicts are doing everything in their power to get bigger.

The sacrifice includes the following rituals:

  • Daily injections of known and unknown steroids. Some compounds are literally designed for horses and yet people introduce them to their bloodstream.
  • Growth hormone injections
  • Insulin injections (you can get into a coma and die as a result of this practice)
  • Training 6-7 days a week
  • Following expensive and complicated diets
  • Paying glorious amounts of money to personal trainers

Don’t you think that individuals who are willing to do all of that in the name of the Hypertrophy God are afraid of HIT?

Think again.

Harder.

The painful truth is that a muscle addict will go all the way to add muscle to his frame. 

And if HIT was the difference between being average and the KING, everybody would be a HITTER.


3. Injuries

Here’s a questionnaire for geniuses:

When do you think you are more likely to tear a muscle? 

A) When you perform a set until you know that the next rep will require you to break form.

B) When you perform a set to total failure, and then some sweaty fella with raisin-like balls lifts the weight all the weight for you so that you can get 3 more reps with extremely slow negatives?

Ultimately, it doesn’t matter how effective your training is when…you can’t train due to an injury.

If you want to tear a muscle, go ahead and HIT it hard.

4. Not Practical

HIT forces you to jump on the machines because applying it to compound exercises is often dangerous.

Do you think that it’s a coincidence that HIT was heavily promoted by Arthur Jones, the inventor of the Nautilus machine series?

A wise man once told me that —-

there is no such thing as a coincidence.

🙂

5. HIT Treats You Like a Machine

High IQ training realizes that humans are not robots. Hence smart programming comes with carefully engineered deload phases (one step back, two steps forward type of thing).

HIT could have this sophistication too but more often than not doesn’t because the teachers are too focused on squeezing your CNS until you vomit.

They think that it’s awesome to feel like you were just HIT by a car after a workout.

They don’t realize that most people have better things to do with their time.


Additional Hard-Hitting Facts

  • Mentzer built his body with volume before allegedly switching to HIT. (According to many he was doing higher volume than advertised.)
  • Yates already had a pro physique when he became a hard HITTER.
  • During the so-called Colorado experiment, Casey Viator didn’t build any new muscle. He simply regained what he’d lost before.

P.S.

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94 comments

  1. Victorio Roman

    Regarding training, what is your opinion on cardio for fat lose ? Do you do any ? is it necessary for a natural ? How about fasted cardio ? bodybuilders raved about this for cardio and fat lose. How about walking, that’s the new thing now slow steady walk for fat lose. Or is it even necessary for a natural to do, whereas maybe just clean eating is best. What is your take.

    Victorio

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      You already know the answer.

      The main source of fatness is food, primarily excessive carbs.

      Cardio fasted or not can help, but it cannot negate a bad diet. If you have to pick one (good diet or cardio), diet wins.

    2. Sam

      I dropped off a little over 10 kgs / 20 lbs last year. The most important thing for me was to rationalize my diet. That really did the job. But I also started walking a lot. Many people have actually been very successful in dieting by keeping a pretty strict diet during the week and then taking it easier during weekends and adding walking to the mix. In the past I would have gone crazy with walking, I was all about the high intensity cardio, but nowadays it hasn’t really felt that bad.
      Ironically, I think that even “Thes shadow” Dorian Yates have admitted to doing powerwalks or something like that during his bodybuilding career for cardio 😀 Although I think he said that he did it mostly because of the other health benefits, rather than to burn calories. I think about it the same way, so I do it because of the health benefits, but you can also burn some calories at the same time if you are able to do it enough. But there are many reliable studies in the web about the health benefits of walking if you are interested.

  2. User

    Hi thrue seeker, I have a question. Is it good to reach 15% bw after bulking when you are young before 21 age? I have heard that they say that your bones cannot grow up as they should
    Or does it only affect your growth when you are under 10% BW?
    Thanks

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      Unless you are genetically predisposed to being under 10% (highly unlikely) being that lean will have a negative impact on your hormones. Your test will go down.

      Being 15% body fat as a male of any age is completely healthy.

  3. Julian

    So how many series are we talking about to grow?
    Will I lose muscle if I lower the muscle that doesn’t interest me to 8 weekly sets and increase the one that does interest me to 14?
    Envia

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      The absolute minimum for maintaining muscle mass is 1 set per week with high intensity (e.g., 80-90% of your 1RM).

      If you lower the training for the muscle that doesn’t interest you to 8 sets, you won’t lose muscle unless they are super ez warm-ups.

      If you increase the amount of work done for the other muscle groups from 8 to 14, you will see some growth over time.

  4. Ani

    Hi truth seeker.
    I would like to ask You, how do I know my body fat percentage?

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      DEXA scan is the best, but it’s also not accessible for everyone. The important part is to use the same method to track progress accurately.

      The cheapest method is the military way (with measurements). It’s not as a accurate, but the important part is to be consistent with the method.

      So, if the method you use says that you’ve lost 5% (going from 20 to 15), it doesn’t really matter whether the starting number was inaccurate. All that matters is the progress.

      1. Ani

        thank you truth seeker.

        Do you think the physique of the guy who look like Saitama is natty? I forgot his name.

  5. TruthLover

    I tried HIT multiple times without any result to show for.

    It reminds me of HITler because both are about using resources to fuck shit up instead of making any progress.

    1. Sam

      Thanks man, I had a good laugh with this. I need to remember this one 😀

  6. Julian

    Thank you very much, seeker of truth, since you comment in your book, if I were to upload all the groups to 14 series, I would not stand out in anything, I prioritize what stands out in men or what I lack in my body, do you think that is true? Or should I do everything the same? Well, I have been non-stop for 7 years in a row and there is no improvement, it is very important for me that you answer me

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      I advise the following plan:

      1. Start training everything and build basic strength – at least six months (pull-ups, dips, squats, bench, deadlift type of thing).

      2. Analyze your weaknesses and strengths.

      3. If you want a balanced physique, put everything else on hold/maintenance and hit the priorities HARD.

      4. If you don’t care about a balanced physique, just focus on whatever muscles you want.

      You want bigger biceps? Make them a priority.

      You want bigger lats? Work them, hard and often.

      Want a big chest? Make it happen by training it first in a session and at least a few times every 10 days.

      I don’t think a natty can have impressive everything unless sick genetics are in the equation.

      Your CNS and recovery capabilities are limited.

      Never forget that every day is CNS day.

  7. Guille

    Gracias por subir artículos más seguido…todo lo que escribes es oro…

  8. Martin

    To be fair, a lot of things pro BBers do are not proven to be beneficial. Two come to mind:
    1) Eating 2g/protein per lb of bodyweight.
    There isn’t a single study showing that even 1 g of lb per bodyweight is necessary, enhanced or natural.
    2) Using a bro-split.
    Whereas eating extra protein isn’t bad, countless studies show that a 2x week frequency for a muscle group is definitively better than a 1x frequency.

    Ultimately, I think that you should aim to do at least 10 sets to failure per muscle group per week. The issue with high volume routines is that a lot of your sets are essentially junk volume, so I do think that to conserve time, it’s worth taking all your sets to or just shy of failure. It also ensures each set is productive.

    1. Sam

      @Martin.
      It’s funny that you mention scientific research at point 1 and leave out scientific research at point 2. Point 1 is correct. Protein (powders) is a made-up product to make producers and sellers richer. Point 2 is not wrong, but it is not correct either. The number of sets per muscle group per week and the number of times a muscle group is trained per week depends on a large number of variables and the advantage/disadvantage will be different for everyone.

  9. Julián

    Great search engine, I point it out, I was working the biceps as a priority for 15 sets and in two months it still doesn’t reflect anything, I’m going to give them frequency 2 as you mention if it happens. What would be your limit of series in a specialization for a muscle in those 10 days?

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      Depends. If it’s a big muscle like the lats, it can handle a lot. If it’s your triceps it’s not that much, at least in the beginning.

  10. Julian

    I understand I should wait like 6 months to see if it’s working? With a small surplus or maintenance?

  11. Hoyos

    I also saw a great breakdown of Casey Viator by a pretty mainstream guy that seemed to prove that his muscle gain was impossible. Not “he regained”, but somebody was fudging numbers impossible. Not an expert myself so don’t know but still.

  12. Sam

    Once again, thanks for the great article TS! I think people often go to very ends of the spectrum when it comes down to intensity and volume. It feels like only options are either Arnie’s high volume stuff or Mentzer / Yates type of low volume and high intensity thing. I personally have tried many different approaches during my lifetime. In the beginning I followed more the high volume path, but later I started doing a lot less. I have now done strength stuff for over a decade straight without taking too many breaks, the only mandatory breaks have been because of sicknesses, vacations or problems caused by old injuries., surgeries etc. And this is by far the longest stretch I’ve ever been able to do continously. I don’t think I could have had the longevity if I wouldn’t have changed my training routine in the past. I just somehow got locked in to doing only two hard sets per exercise, and mostly just a couple of different exercises per session. I’ve never really gone to the HIT kind of intensity, but just two hard sets to the point where the form begins to detoriate. I’ve also done mostly bodyweight / calisthenics stuff, so pushing too far hasn’t really been an option when you are hanging from a bar or you are upside down. When I started this, I didn’t even know about Arthur Jones / Mentzer or Yates, and of course they didn’t even really come up with this stuff either, 2 hard sets per exercise dates back a lot further. But yeah, I digress, the point is that for me something in between has worked well. I have never been able to stomach high volume in the long run, but couple of hard enough sets seems to be the sweet spot for me. At least at this point.

  13. Diana Bowl

    Nice post especially as Mentzer and Arthur Jones stuff is resurfacing on shorts a lot these days.

    Bottom line for me is we’ve all tried HIT and nobody does it long term. One could argue the only thing that works is the thing one sticks with and HIT is never that. A sub optimal routine done consistently is better than the optimal routine which is never done consistently.

    The less is more approach excites the optimisation / efficiency we sometimes seek.

    How many natties really stick with HIT?

  14. Victorio

    While we’re talking training and HITis garbage for naturals, truth seeker what’s your take on building shoulders for naturals. Juicers it seems all talk about doing two sets of heavy shoulder presses while others say extensive lateral raises is what’s needed, what’s your take on building shoulders.

    Victorio

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      Direct front and rear delt work is a waste of time. Just hit chest and back hard with whatever.

      Side laterals are ok. High frequency, high reps…if you wanna do a shoulder specialization.

  15. Wil

    That is weird my best gains have been done doing HIT principles.
    I went from 77 to 84kg using HIT, And I now use HIT-type principles for S& C as I train for Muay Thai, I have better cardio and more power with less injury risk.

    Most people don’t understand HIT, but HIT done right is a total game-changer.

    1. Sam

      @Wil, From never having muscle mass to muscle mass or have you had this muscle mass before and do you benefit from muscle memory?

      1. Wil

        Bro it’s new muscle mass. I did a bulk doing high intensity calisthenics before from 68kg to 77 kg. I might have lost weight to like 74kg during the pandemic and did Hit and got to 84kg. Right now am at 88kg at around 15% bodyfat. My cardio is the best it’s been, strength too and I only train once or twice a week. Hit works. With the plus of less beat up joints. Most people train too much with too little true intensity.

        1. Sam

          @Wil, Have you also trained dedicatedly and consistently for quite some time with a conventional workout routine with weights without results or is HIT the first routine you have done?

          1. Wil

            I did 5×5 and reverse pyramid before. Nothing comes close to HIT.
            I always ended up getting something sore in time, be it back, shoulder, or knee. With HIT I saw incredible gains and right now despite training Muay Thai and boxing 4-6 times a week, I have maintained muscle with minimal training.
            HIT works, those who say it doesn’t or don’t understand how it works or have never tried it.

          2. Truth Seeker Post author

            It works for maintaining but not for gaining.

      1. Sam

        @OSB. Can you please come up with examples of 100% lifelong natural bodybuilders (not even TRT) who are relatively big (as far as this is natural POSSIBLE) with ‘high volume’ training. If there were any, they would be special exceptions because in my 42+ years of training and coaching I don’t know anyone at all.

        Namens please!

        1. OSB

          Oh dear…so you’ve never heard of Steve Reeves, Reg Park, Clancy Ross, George Eiferman, Lou Degni, Dick DuBois, etc. You obviously haven’t done much research.

          1. Sam

            @OSB. First of all, it is very questionable whether the gentlemen you mentioned where really natural (I highly doubt that) and these gentlemen definitely did not do a ‘high volume’ routine. They trained with just a conventional routine.

  16. Derek

    What a biased written piece of non-sense.

  17. You are dumb

    Purely retarded on all levels lol

  18. Sam

    @Wil, So you have no comparison with conventional training. You would almost certainly have built up the same muscle mass or more. With regard to HIT, you are just lucky with a good genetic predisposition and it is fine for maintenance, maintenance does not require much.

    1. Wil

      Bro I did for like 2-3 years. The thing is that anything will work. You could do CrossFit, calisthenics or strongman. hit is just safer and more efficient. It’s even better for naturals because you estimulate no annihilate. I have coached my friends and they all tried it and gained muscle when other things failed them. Just read body by science. hit is based on basic exercise principles.

      1. Sam

        @Wil, Indeed, with dedication and consistency a lot of routines work and possibly HIT too. I read that book and also tried HIT in my more than 42 years of training experience. I personally think it’s a terrible way to train. An attack on your CNS and boring as hell. Will never recommend HIT.

      2. Eric

        Wil, what setup (exercises, cadence) did you use that you find effective? And you do it once or twice?

        1. Sam

          @Will. To supplement Eric’s question. Will, how do you do warm-up sets? How many reps per warm-up set, how many sets of them and what is the percentage of 1 rep/max per rep?

          1. Wilson Javier Ariza

            I don’t do warm-up sets, Maybe a practice set if It is a more technical exercise. But I usually train at noon or night so no problem there. I would say I probably train within 60-80% of one rep max. I don’t find it useful to do 1rm cause I am not a competitive powerlifter.
            I train twice a week and do 7-8 exercises doing a full-body routine. I usually do each rep lasting around 8-1o seconds, I am for 70-90 seconds per set.
            So far my cardio greatly improved, have more muscle as my training partners and other sparring partners comment how hard it is to clinch, etc.

  19. Wil

    More efficient and safer is terrible to you? To each their own I guess

    1. Sam

      @Wil, In my opinion and years of experience, HIT is absolutely not more efficient and certainly not safer.

      1. Wil

        Bro good thing it’s your opinion. Hit is based on research and exercise science. I just saw a post by Chris Beardsley concluding CNS fatigue start rapidly increasing after just a couple of sets. Therefore the first set is more effective and safer if done right. I have not met a normal person that has gotten injured with Hit. You are just misinformed.

  20. V

    Its also important to remind that bbers need to sell their useless programs/products indefinitely so (as i recall you said) its pivotal for them to invent any sort of new “science” because new routines are always gonna have a better marketing appeal than the same old stuff. Anyway this battle was lost long ago any idiot who pins their glutes can say whatever kids will believe him because hes big, and since there is new kids everyday that approach the gym world the need for such pinners (and their “ideas”) will never go down

      1. Sam

        And Arthur Jones wanted to sell his Nautilus equipment and used some steroid injecting bodybuilders who promoted his equipment with the HIT fantasy while they had became big with conventional training (and roids).

        1. Wil

          bro HIT works even when doing bodyweight exercises, and the same principle applies to isometrics.
          Its just some machines are safer and effective to reach failure in.

          1. Sam

            @Wil, Haha, funny that many HIT followers* see HIT as a religion and insist on imposing their faith on everyone else.

            *There are very few of them because it is not the most profitable routine and is also very boring.

            By the way, it’s also funny to read that you simply copy the authors of that book (Body by Science) and think that it is scientifically substantiated…😂

          2. Sam

            @Wil, Do I understand correctly that you believe that isometric muscle stimulation produces significant muscle building?

  21. Wil

    No religion, most people do stupid things in the gym. They move too fast, or train too much. Hit is just based on scientific principles. Anything works , just some things are more effective than others. Most people don’t know or understand exercise. Did you see the study that concludes that acsm recommendations are not based on facts or research?
    Most is pure tradition. You probably wouldn’t get it.
    On regards to isometrics check out brad Thorpe or TSC. Both approaches work.

    1. Sam

      @Wil, I do not base my opinion on the following, but I am curious about your statement. If HIT is really more optimal than conventional training, why does almost no one do HIT and why does almost everyone who has trained with a proper HIT routine for a sufficient period of time return to conventional training?

  22. Wil

    Simple because Hit is not known, bro science and folklore is common. And most people don’t really understand exercise. Hit is more efficient and time effective. It’s also harder so most people prefer going back to what they usually do. But hit will provide results in all measures of physical ability. Keep in mind that some people train for different things ( CrossFit, powerlifting, kettlebell sport etc) so they prefer a more social, emotional aspect etc.

    1. Sam

      @Wil, HIT is well known and often practiced among serious (recreational) BBs, but they almost always go back to conventional training. If something is bro science and invented for the sake of profit, then it is really HIT. The fact that you find it a pleasant way of training is a bonus for you, but you are really one of the rare ones.

  23. Wil

    HIT is not bro science, As I stated, look up the acsm guideline study and see how most of the things you think work are based on assumptions, myths, or folklore, and yet people ask to get certified. As I stated. After understanding HIT from drew baye’s HIT LIST. I am stronger, faster, and better conditioned with less training and with no joint issues. HIT works, just that people who don’t even understand exercise think all sets are made the same and probably have never really trained to failure.

    1. Sam

      The HIT fans I know certainly don’t look better than the bro-science guys. And it’s funny that you use Drew as an example, he’s one of those steroid users who claims to work hard. Without TRT he’s just a sad little guy, despite HIT.

  24. Wil

    You do know Drew is 50+ right?
    The size of your muscles is genetic, the same as the color of your eyes, so what would you have suggested for him, High volume to increase testosterone?
    Bro most physique influencers are on some type of gear but few admit it. I mean those guys that train daily for hours and their fans think they are natural, probably also think the rock is natty lol.
    Doug mcguff looks great for his age and career choice, Jay Vincent has always looked big, Andy omel has got great results in HIT.
    There are many examples.
    But bro if you think training like Arnold will make you look like him… well.
    The thing with HIT is not if you look better or not.
    You could do CrossFit, do High Volume, do calisthenics and you will look similar, the thing I think about is time and injury. Nobody wants to end like Ronny coleman.
    Is it worth training 6 times a week and not be able to run down some stairs because your knees are messed up?

    1. Sam

      I think you are short-sighted, but I wish you many more years of training fun. By the way, I was already training in the gym when Drew still had poopy diapers, so the fact that he is ‘already 50’ doesn’t mean anything to me, you understand. Best wishes!

    2. OSB

      @will. Drew Baye is on roids. For years he was a chunky mess but now he looks enhanced. He claims to be on trt but trt does not give you steroids like effects. He couldn’t even produced any medical papers when asked to prove his claim. He clearly jumped on the juice as hit did not work for him. He’s a “fitness influencer” lol, so to stay relevant he hoped on the gear to enter a contest that wasn’t even drug tested. A con man and nothing more.

      Jay Vincent is another con man selling the HIT kool aid. He built his body with volume (by his own admisdion) and takes roids. Another faker.

      Doug McGuff looks pathetic and weak. Another con.

      Ronnie Coleman did not hurt himself by his training methods. He had an old back injury from his football days in college. He had it operated on but went against doctors orders and continued to train heavy. That’s what messed him up…not listening to his doctor.

      Funny how the volume guys are still training in their later years. Arnold, Ferrigno, Haney, Zane, Cutler, Coe, etc and yet guys like methzer, Yates, Viator all burned out early and quit bodybuilding altogether.

      Many naturals have trained 6 days a week and built decent physiques. You obviously have fallen for the HIT brain washing because it appeals to your lazy side. Hit is not backed up by any science and in fact science debunks HIT. Volume, along with load, tension and reasonable intensity is the prime driver of growth. That’s real science.

      Also take into account real world results. If HIT really worked we’d all be doing it already but the cold hard truth is HIT, afterv5 decades, still has a very dismal success rate. It simply does not work.

      1. Sam

        @OSB. You clearly don’t know much about it. TRT does give steroids similar effects. You are the one who needs to do some proper research. To date you have shown little knowledge of this subject.

  25. Wil

    Not short-sighted, I see the result and understand the science. You are probably set in your ways and that is ok. I would say the only drawback of HIT for me is that I gain muscle way too fast for my liking, so have to track my diet a lot to stay in the weight class.
    Anyway, nice talk, best wishes as well.

  26. TC

    No real issue with Yates to be honest but the fact that people are STILL parroting Mike Mentzer and view him as some sort of intellectual is annoying. It’s incredible that he managed to spend so many years using so many words to actually say so little. Here, I will summarise 20 years of Mike Mentzers incoherent ramblings thus: train less and rest more. That’s it. And never mind that there’s no actual evidence to support what he was saying, that didn’t stop him and others from stating it like fact. And don’t get me started about a guy who was so fragile that finishing 5th (yes 5th) in an event he thought he should have won (!) was enough for him to go off the rails and quit competing all together. I don’t actually have a personal issue with the man but he is hardly someone worthy of admiration, he just came up with a gimmick and used pseudo intellectual babble to make it sound smart. Rant over.

  27. Wil

    Well, bro, HIT is incredibly well-documented, James steele and James Fisher have published a couple of studies documenting the effectiveness of HIT. The body by science book has lots of studies that base the foundation of HIT. Most people have not read the book or the studies.

    What most people don’t seem to understand is that it’s not just any set. You could do a set like most people who train High volume do and you will get no real results in strength, hypertrophy, or endurance. The effectiveness of the set is in how it is done. It is not just rest more. You could rest more and if stimulus is not enough there is no extra compensation.

    Mike Metzer is one of the few to achieve a perfect score in the olympia, and the infamous Olympia set him 4th not 5th, it’s known the judges were biased due to sponsorships and training style.

    1. TC

      Happy to read the scientific papers you suggested but I’m not aware of them. Can you provide some links please? I mean proper peer reviewed paper published in proper journals.

      I think Mentzer got a perfect score at the Mr America or Mr Universe. Cant remember which but it definitely wasn’t the Olympia.

      This may sound harsh but the bottom line is that a true champion would have taken what happened in 1980 on the chin and come back the following year or any of the next 10 years and won. If MM was robbed that night then so were at least 3 other men who went on to win the event in future years (Colombu? Zane? Dickerson?), instead of having a massive meltdown and throwing in the towel. It’s sad to say but MM just wast cut out for it; the man was a bit of a loser.

      1. Sam

        Exactly, Wil keeps coming up with his ‘scientific studies’, but forgets that these are also just assumptions and even if it were truly scientifically proven, there are still countless scientific studies that refute this. Also that book he talks about and of course that is also just bro-science. If HIT was the way, everyone would do HIT. HIT was just a business model of Arthur Jones and is now a business model of several others.

        HIT is nice for muscle maintenance, but for muscle building there are much better routines and scientific studies say nothing at all.

        1. Wil

          You clearly have not seen the evidence, read the book or even looked at the studies lol.

          HIT is just efficient exercise. Most people prefer to do gimmicks, to train in the gym daily yet remain the same. Some people even think walking is exercise.

          If you think studies say nothing at all, then why have a conversation.
          There are better methods to others. It’s like saying that you prefer to walk everywhere even though there are trains, cars, planes.

          You should at least try HIT, you will be surprised.

          1. Sam

            @Wil, I have read the book (I have the book) and also various studies, and even did HIT for quite some time in the hope that I could still build muscle mass after years of conventional training. In my opinion, HIT has no added value at all and personally I also think it is a worthless, boring and unsatisfactory way of training.

      2. Wil

        You can google the papers.
        https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259390281_Evidence-Based_Resistance_Training_Recommendations_for_Muscular_Hypertrophy

        https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27677913/

        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6016534/

        https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359808022_The_Role_of_Supervision_in_Resistance_Training_an_Exploratory_Systematic_Review_and_Meta-Analysis

        https://paulogentil.com/pdf/Neither%20repetition%20duration%20nor%20number%20of%20muscle%20actions%20affect%20strength%20increases%2C%20body%20composition%2C%20muscle%20size%2C%20or%20fasted%20blood%20glucose%20in%20trained%20males%20and%20females.pdf

        On his perfect score:
        https://www.simplyshredded.com/simplyshredded-exclusive-profile-former-ifbb-professional-bodybuilder-mike-mentzer-1951-2001.html

        I quote:
        In late 1979, Mentzer won the heavyweight class of the Mr. Olympia, again with a perfect 300 score, but he lost in the overall to Frank Zane who was awarded the title for a third time that year.

        He might have had mental health issues. But his results are worth study.

        1. Sam

          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6303131/#:~:text=Specifically%2C%20changes%20in%20muscle%20strength,in%20markers%20of%20muscle%20hypertrophy.

          In conclusion, High Volume training elicited hypertrophy, whereas High Load training resulted in a greater increase in leg extension strength. The current data challenge our prior muscle-molecular findings given that no alterations were observed in myosin heavy chain and actin protein abundances following either training protocol. However, the current iNon-MyoPS findings suggest some muscle-molecular differences exist between HV and HL training and warrant further research.
          Bron: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/physiology/articles/10.3389/fphys.2022.857555/full

          Considering the aforementioned studies, effective hypertrophy-oriented training should comprise a combination of mechanical tension and metabolic stress. In summary, foundations for individuals seeking to maximize muscle growth should be hypertrophy-oriented RT consisting of multiple sets (3−6) of six to 12 repetitions with short rest intervals (60 s) and moderate intensity of effort (60−80% 1RM) with subsequent increases in training volume (12–28 sets/muscle/week).
          Bron: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6950543/

        2. OSB

          @will. Studies are flawed and font prove much. What actually matters is evidence. There has never ever been a hit only bodybuilder. Not Yates. Not methzer. Not Viator. They all used traditional methods to build up. There has never been an hit only bodybuilder who has used hit exclusively to build a top level physique. Not one.

          As for methzer’s “perfect score” its a gimmick. It does not mean a perfect body. Bodybuilding scores are rankings, having a perfect score means a judge agrees you were the best bodybuilder at that show, not that your physique is perfect. If someone that placed 2nd to 6th at the Olympia turned up at some no name backwater pro show, they’d be more or less guaranteed to get a perfect score. If someone is unanimously agreed to have the best physique in the novice category at an amateur show, they will get a perfect score. That doesn’t mean 2nd to 6th at the Olympia or a random amateur has a better a physique than a Mr Olympia that won without a perfect score, it means they were unanimously agreed to be the best at a less competitive show. And methzer didn’t receive a perfect score at the 79 Olympia, he received a perfect score in the heavyweight division of the 79 Olympia, meaning some of the judges merely agreed he was the best heavyweight not the best overall bodybuilder.

          So no. merhzer is not worth a study.

  28. Wil

    Good thing it’s your opinion and not based on facts.
    HIT is safer and more efficient, the thing is few people know how to really do it effectively, and even fewer care to learn.
    The good thing is you can get an exercise effect with other methods but with different results. Just do what works for you then but don’t think it will work for everyone.

    1. Sam

      @Wil, The last thing I want to write about it is that HIT is not more efficient, not safer and not based on facts.

    2. TC

      Thanks I will take a look

      And happy to be set straight on the perfect score thing

      But my opinion of Mentzer does not change. In the end, his best result was 4th at the Olympia and then 20 years of writing very simple things in the most complicated and voluminous way possible to make himself seem like some kind of intellectual, which he certainly was not.

      1. OSB

        methzer came a distant 5th in the 1980 olympia, not 4th. He was never close to winning.

  29. Wil

    I shared some studies in another comment. They are being moderated.
    But for example did you know acsm guidelines and teaching are not based on any studies or science?

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      I approve 99.9% of all comments so don’t worry.

    2. OSB

      The HIT dogma is strong with this one but it’s all the same tired old arguments that have no basis in reality. After 5 decades hit still has a very dismal success rate despite all the hype.

      The typical demograph for thr hit guy is

      Skinny
      Fat
      Skinny fat
      Goes to a family fitness centre
      Doesn’t really like working out
      Doesn’t eat a proper muscle building diet
      Eats way too many carbs
      Using the lazy excuse of “recovery” by staying out of the gym for 7 to 10 days
      Laziness

      Hit guys in real life look very unremarkable despite the dubious claims of making “phenomenal” gains on HIT. HIT guys are known to be either lying or delusional. Hit sucks.

  30. OSB

    Superb analysis of Yates’s very flawed method which in actual fact is just the old Delorme Watkins method and not anything like HIT. Fact is, Yates trained like most pro’s. Multiple sets on multiple exercises for each bodypart and at a high frequency.

    His cringey blood and guts vid and the vids shown on YT of him training “clients” are all done for entertainment purposes. Clicks and views. Nothung more. They are not a training manual to be used for real training.

    Fact is, even Yates did NOT train in that blood and guts style most of the time. He only did b&g training when he was already built and he was on HUGE amounts of roids and GH (something he now glazes over so he can be more “appealing”) to maintain what he had previously built with conventional methods.

    Yates earlier training consisted of traditional pyramid sets, straight sets, back off sets or multiple drop sets. He was NOT doing one work set back then to build his body.

    Yates seems to forget these facts in his seminars and interviews. Why? Because he’s got something to sell and that is the old hit bs gimmick. Yates has to stay relevant somehow and to do that he constantly repeats the old hit dogma by making out how hard he trained, no-one could out train him, how he was supposedly influenced by methzer and Jones, etc. It’s all hype to make him stand out from the crowd and claim he did everything different from other top bodybuilders.

    It’s all just a marketing ploy. Watch how Lee Haney, Bertil Fox, Ronnie Coleman, Paul Dillet, Kevin Levrone and many others train in their vids and you will find it’s no different. All work up to a top set or 2. Yates basically just copied those guys and try to spin it as something else.

    Yates training isn’t that hard at all. In B&G’s on some exercises like the stiff leg deadlift and a few others he didn’t even go to failure, how is that HIT? It’s not. As stated, Yates followed the Delorme method which is basically pyramid training. He worked up through a few sets increasing the intensity aa he went until the last set. Nothing radical there at all. He did no drop sets, no rest pause, hardly any negatives etc. He just worked up to a top set and that was it. That is not HIT.

    Most guys work up to a top set and if they want more volume they do some back off sets. Pretty standard stuff.

    So no, Yates did nothing special. He’s just marketing his nonsense to stay relevant as he has nothing else to offer. Course, the hit fanatics buy it hook line and sinker and try to use Yates as a great example of hit when in actual fact he was doing what other pros were doing. It’s all bs.

    1. Sam

      For real naturals HIT is indeed just as counterproductive as High Volume Training.

      1. OSB

        @sam. Real naturals do volume to maximise results. Get that through your head.

        1. Sam

          @OSB. You’re apparently too ignorant to discuss further so I’ll leave it at that.

          1. OSB

            @sam I’m not the ignorant one.

    2. TC

      But I don’t think Yates ever really said he only did “one set”. He always said he did a couple of warm up sets followed by one set to absolute failure. So that’s 3 sets per exercise across say 3-4 different exercises which is still far less than what the weider mags were spouting but definitely not the extreme one-set-a-fortnight gibberish mentzer was going on about in his declining years. I think mentzer kind of latched on to Yates for marketing reasons. But this is why I don’t really have an issue with Yates so much as mentzer, 3 sets per exercise is pretty reasonable and hardly high volume.

      1. OSB

        @TC Yates did more sets in his formative years and his last set was never to absolute failure. You did pyramid sets. That’s it.

  31. Wil

    When you do true high intensity training. Doing more than one set is counterproductive. Yates on his last seminar explained it. Most people do way too much. Is it worth it to have big biceps when young but when old you can hardly walk from overuse injuries?

    1. OSB

      @wil So you’re afraid of injuries yet doing hit has caused many injuries. Just look at yayes. He tore himself up by doing his one set guff.

  32. Wil

    Bro , Yates could improve his form. Does not mean Hit and super slow works.
    For me it has been way more effective with less wear and tear on my joints. With strict form and to failure is safer and effective.

    1. OSB

      @wil. It certainly doesn’t work. 5 decades of HIT and it still has a very dismal success rate. High volume rules.

  33. Iron Berserk

    What in the Mark Hayden is going on around here?

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