Is Chasing Women a Waste of Time? (from a man who tried)

| by Truth Seeker |

source: Photo by luizclas from Pexels

My experience says yes.

Over the years, I’ve dedicated a lot of my time to finding the right woman. I spent years on dating apps and did all kinds of approaches…warm, cold…etc.

Even though I’ve gathered some positive experiences, the effort to output ratio does not speak in my favor.

Chasing women had a very poor ROI (return on investment) for me.

Why?

A tough question that I’ll try to answer as genuinely as possible:

Chasing women depreciates your value.

When you commence running after women, you’re subconsciously signaling that they can have you if they so desire.

Your availability hurts their attraction for you. You instantly transform into a conquered territory. Your presence is no longer exciting and fails to stimulate their giggle layers properly since people are wired to lust after what they cannot have.

On the base of this thesis, many experienced men avoid complimenting women and decrease all emissions of interest to the smallest possible level.

Somewhat ironically, even my mother once told me: “Never show them that you’re in a hurry.” which was her way of saying – don’t seem overeager.

It may sound counter-intuitive, but the more expressive you become of your feelings and even love, the less interested she becomes.

For better or worse, women want men who keep them on their toes. The harder you pull them, the harder you’re pushing them away.

My life unequivocally confirms that on every level.

For example, a while back I began talking to a woman on social media. I didn’t respond right away to her message and left her on seen. It wasn’t some “red pill” tactic. I just didn’t want to chat at that moment.

She got angrier and double texted me nervously.

Guess, what? As soon as I began answering promptly, she ghosted me.

Another sample out of 100s that I can provide would be the first phone number that I got as a result of approaching women. She was delighted to give me her contact, but when we were saying goodbye, I unintentionally made a crucial mistake by saying: “Thank you.”

The next day, we met, and she specifically asked me why I’d said it. Her body language prevented her from hiding her disappointment.

Why was she sad? Because I’d expressed too much enthusiasm. In their book, that’s wicked and “needy”.

A word on responsibility

One of the reasons why women don’t like men who show excessive interest is that your commitment scares her because it demands responsibility on her part too.

And since modern women have been raised in a spoiled way and taught that the world is there to please them, error 404 occurs, and they bounce in the search for someone who would hopefully readjust their emotional equalizer to happier frequencies.

When you are attractive and/or wealthy – women chase you.

Many professors will tell you that it’s natural for men to fight for women. Biology back this claim.

Women are the limiting factor from a reproductive standpoint. More women equal more potential pregnancies. Consequently, women get to choose who will reproduce and who won’t.

This factor creates fierce competition between men to prove themselves and get a chance to continue their offspring.

A rivalry mechanism is observed during conception itself. An adult male can release between 40 million and a billion sperm cells, but only one of them would win and fertilize an egg. The rest die a lonely death.

Meanwhile, women have around 2 million egg follicles, but they close up by puberty and only 450 produce mature eggs. This makes the ratio between sperm cells and eggs 40, 000, 000 / 450 = 800000: 9 And that’s the case only if sperm production is on the low side.

Men are built this way because we have significantly lower chances of reproducing in general.

Somewhat ironically, those chances are even lower today.

In the past, a woman needed protection and physical support. She couldn’t survive by herself because women are physically weaker than men and needed a protector and a worker to do the heavy lifting e.g., hunt, split wood…etc.

A lonely woman was like a lioness without a lion – up for the taking. Male lions are often painted as lazy because they don’t normally hunt, but they have a very important mission nonetheless – to protect the pride.

Men had that job in the past too, but this is no longer the case. Our role has been outsourced to the government, law enforcement, and private companies. We are almost obsolete.

Why would she cry over you when the state can give her money if she is a single mother, and the police are there to defend her? If she needs someone to fix her sink or TV antenna, she could just call someone and pay them, or better yet text a guy on a dating app who’d do it for free.

In the past decades, the depreciation of the male was offset to a certain extent by the fact that men were getting paid more while women were stay-at-home moms. The word protector was replaced by provider. Our value on the economic battlefield was artificially and yet effectively preserving our natural male roles.

But that framework ended. Today, women are often out-earning men thanks to white-collar work and the digital world. Ironically, the physical professions are still dominated by men because women don’t want to do such labor and can’t match a man’s performance regardless of what the TV shows say.

This created an even bigger gap between the average woman and the average man. She’s a queen whereas you’re just a peasant.

A clear example of that would be females who experience significantly more success in the dating world than their brothers despite literally carrying the same DNA.

The massive devaluation of the ordinary male turned relationships into mission impossible for most men. We began self-improving into oblivion while reading material teaching us how to deploy various psychological tricks that could better the outcome of an interaction. That strategy didn’t change the status quo. She is still not impressed.

But the fact that she isn’t impressed by you or me doesn’t mean that she doesn’t hold her breath when other guys speak to her.

Who are those guys?

The high-value male – ultra-hot and/or rich guys who provide elite genes and bucks.

Women may not be pursuing the average brah, but they are certainly exerting more effort in the pursuit of top tier specimens. She wants their elite sperm because that’s the only thing she can’t get from the state.

In some cases, women even approach those guys on the street (reverse pick-up) and slip their phone numbers.

Hence why the “genetic aristocrats” don’t have to chase women – they attract them.

But this particular mechanism isn’t a novelty. Women have always sacrificed more for the princes and the kings.

Nowadays, that process is greatly facilitated by the digital infrastructure which simplifies the communication between “Cinderellas” and high-end men to an unprecedented level.

For instance, I know two average women who have slept with a pro fighter and a pro football player from my country after text exchanges on social media. In the past, similar “achievements” required a significantly greater struggle.

How do experts interpret this information?

It depends on one’s agenda. If someone is selling you self-improvement, they’ll tell you to become a high-end man by waking up early and working on your business whereas those marketing seduction courses will give you tips on how to mimic the output of alpha individuals.

Similar advice has some value. If, for example, you stop chasing women and invest your time in acquiring better education and a more respected profession (e.g., pilot), your investment could yield better results.

Moreover, you’ll feel better about yourself for pursuing a personal goal rather than seeking validation from an external human party.

However, the effectivity of self-improvement is smaller than one may think for the following reasons:

  • You’re stuck with your genetics.

No amount of self-improvement would turn an average brah into Brad Pitt.

  • You can’t become a millionaire.

All those online alphas telling you that you too can become super-rich are selling you a pipe dream for the most part. Sure, some men acquire incredible wealth, but most don’t regardless of their effort. It’s just the nature of the game.

  • Superficial connections have no value.

If a woman loves you only for your resources and sliced jaw, it’s questionable whether she loves you at all. The physical matters, but when it’s the primary focus, it cheapens the relationship and renders it valueless.

The modern union lacks substance. It’s all about a selfish exchange of dopamine between two horny people. It’s empty.

Many couples break up after a year or two in the search for “new” sources of adrenaline.

Instead of developing a deeper connection, we just give up and restart the same level of the game but with a different character.

Chasing women makes you feel worthless, hollow, and crushes your self-esteem.

Man…I remember the sad evenings when I would be going home after another session of “approach” with nothing to show for it. A mixture of anger, self-pity, self-hatred, and overall depression would take over my deepest layers.

The realization that I was sacrificing time, effort, and a piece of my soul each day for the opportunity to get rejected and humiliated hurt the most.

The coaches tell you not to take rejection personally because you have no idea what could be going in another person’s life. That’s true. You can’t. Also, many women do not possess the necessary bravery to accept an approach even when it comes from a man that they deem attractive.

Yet rejection has a very strong personal element regardless of what the professors say. At the end of the day, they are rejecting you and no one else.

When they give you their phone number and never respond, they are not responding to you.

When they ghost you after a long conversation, they are doing it to you.

When they don’t agree to meet you, they are rejecting you.

When they meet you and then disappear, they are running from you.

If you were a part of the upper echelons a.k.a. better than yourself from a material perspective, you would experience a different female attitude.

But regardless of why an interaction fails, failure always harms your emotional homeostasis. It leaves a mark on you and subconsciously stabs your self-esteem. Sooner or later, you start bleeding internally.

The dynamic of chasing women is similar to the relationship between stars and their fans – the admirers are completely forgoing their plans to accommodate to the life of the celebrity. They would wake up early and change their trajectory to create an opportunity to meet their idols.

This behavior validates the life of the superstar but discredits yours. You’re teaching yourself that you’re less than somebody else.

Excessive chasing amplifies the female ego and devalues women at the same time.

When you chase women, you feed their egos and make them feel like princesses. They develop a bad sense of entitlement and began to think that the world owes them the ultimate experiences just because they’re women.

Paradoxically, this phenomenon occurs with a parallel devaluation of women. The seduction industry teaches men to play the numbers game and to avoid the development of an emotional attachment to a woman as it may have grave consequences.

This practice devalues the interactions between men and women on the male part and closes the following vicious cycle:

  1. Women want men of ultra-value (the top 5-15%).
  2. The average men do everything in their power to qualify but fail and only amplify women’s egos to no end.
  3. The men who qualify are too few to satisfy the demand. Many of them avoid commitment because they enjoy their superpowers a little too much.
  4. Men and women become numb towards each other. Nothing matters. The heart is desensitized.
  5. Everyone suffers but continues to play the game in the hope that a miracle will happen.

Chasing women is fun…only for a little while.

The seduction game is dangerous. It produces a perilous mixture of adrenaline and hope. When I first got into it, I felt like a little kid with a new toy. My mundane life turned into an adventure that I appreciated greatly.

The problem? It became an addiction destroying my life.

I began feeling guilty when I would devote less time than normal to the activity. It felt as if I was skipping a workout during my most obsessed lifting days.

But eventually, the dark emotions, the lack of success, and the gloom prevailed. It was no longer, fun adventurous, or mystical. I felt underappreciated and exploited by myself and the women that I met. I’d overclocked myself in the hope to achieve a true connection but got none of it.

Conclusions

  1. There’s nothing wrong with opening your firewall and trying to create opportunities. After all, if you’re an average man, a woman would rarely if ever come knocking on your door. Some activity is necessary.

But a major problem occurs when you center your pillars of existence around women. The mission mutates into an unhealthy obsession that affects your entire life and actually turns you into a less attractive version of yourself and diminishes your chances of finding someone.

In short, search, be open to new experiences but don’t go all in.

If you want to chase women, don’t let the endeavor take more than 5-10% of your time.

  1. Nobody will appreciate your sacrifice. The women that rejected me one way or another didn’t show any remorse or respect for my effort. If you don’t protect yourself, no one will do it for you.
  2. If she really likes you, she will make the pursuit challenging but not impossible. You wouldn’t have to chase a woman that wants to be with you.
  3. Your intuition will be correct in most cases. If you think that she doesn’t like you, she probably doesn’t.
  4. Letting the pursuit of women take control over your mind will lead you down a dark path.
  5. Focus on building yourself up but don’t trust the unrealistic expectations of self-proclaimed experts who are getting richer by telling you how to get richer. Be real.
  6. Most people lie about their numbers and experiences.
  7. Life gets better when you stop deriving your self-worth from women’s perspective of you.
  8. A lot of the connections that come out of modern seduction are shallow and dysfunctional.
  9. Approaching/chasing women isn’t as alpha people make it to be. It could be seen as a beta move since you’re devaluing yourself in the long run.

Do I regret it?

Yes and no.

I respect my effort because I put my soul in the mission and had pure intentions (to find love).

However, my disappointments had a very negative impact on me, and I wasted a lot of time that I could have invested in more uplifting activities.

P.S. If you find the content on nattyornot.com helpful, you could consider supporting the page by purchasing a book from the library.

The two books that talk about dating are A Desert in the Sky (fiction book) and A Hater’s Synthesis 2 (philosophy).

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29 comments

  1. mattsk1

    Dating sucked but at least I learned what did not want from a woman. I learned I did not want a push over. I learned I did not want girl larger then me. I learned I did not wat a vegetarian. I learned I did not want sex right away. I learned I did not want a complainer, just to name a few. My Wife is opinonated and open to my views, she is smaller then me in size and weight, she eats meat, she was good to wait for sex till we got married, she complains but looks for solutions. I say dating helped me pick someone right for me in the long run.

  2. NattyOrNotFan

    Loved this article. Pretty interesting analysis for a guy that’s been going through all this for the last couple of years. Expected it to be really depressing from the title and your overall outlook but I actually found it to be quite uplifting. Thanks for sharing your thoughts & experiences.

  3. baron2duke

    I believe your problem is more that your prefered type of a woman is not the type of a woman who likes you back. You attract what you project. Let’s take my example. Hipster girls and wannabe intellectuals always found me attractive, despite the fact I consciously wanted to leave this girl ‘clique’ because I disliked these kind of girls and I still don’t like them, especially for their fake ‘progressive’ virtue-signalling views that even they don’t really believe in. But on the other hand I had no lucky strikes with either hotties, good Christian girls, girls with fathers in their lives they respect, even immigrant lower class girls that have no actual social leg up in my society, etc. .

    I don’t know your personal situation except that you’re 6’1 tall or so, and that you have really slim wrists, automatically looking scrawny and punchable. If you are also some minority or a halbreed, that would also explain part of your defeatism, or even delusion, what to expect from love and where you should search for girls at the first place.

  4. zagor

    If other men look up to you for whatever reason, you will get attention from women as well. That’s the problem with these loner approachers. You’re nobody to women unless they can see your social value (what other people think of you). You know why for example building up your physique attracts women? Because other men start to respect you more. And then the women who until yesterday though you were nothing get the signal from society that you have value after all.

    1. mattsk1

      Yep, my wife when we were dating became more attracted to me from what she has told me when she saw how I interacted with others with confidence and those people interacted with me with respect.

  5. lemmings

    Amazing article, your philosophical writing always comes straight from the heart and it shows. Keep up the good work.

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      Thank you for your support, lemmings.

  6. forossa

    Great post. Makes me wanna read the book now. Will do soon.
    I agree with you. I was also consumed by the idea of “the game” and it took it’s toll on me.
    Since i got discharged from military service and stayed alive to tell the tale, i kept thinking that it is not worth any second of it. Maybe i will be alone and maybe i won’t, the world never knew me and never will. So why sweat over an unknown sex result of two sweaty people who happened to combine their DNAs in an “attractive” way?

  7. Brett Pit

    Women want to most handsome guys? I don’t think so…

    In my experiance, they don’t care much about looks.

    All of my exes have less attractive partners after we broke up.
    And they are also lower in intellectual level.

    1. baron2duke

      Women have a leg up in these relationships because of their better looks, so a guy will suck up to her. Lower intellect – easier being manipulated for a girl’s cause and to stay on a leash.

      Actual good looking guys with high intellect are less ‘safe and stable’ for these kind of women. Many of these girls score high on narcissistic traits too.

    2. GuilhermMPP

      I COMPLETETLY AGREE with you, as i have seen many poor ugly guys with pretty girls

  8. Oldboy

    Natural selection baby 😂

  9. Vinicius

    The big problem is that men and woman desire different things at,maybe or, different times. Woman priority when young can be a alpha male (handsome, or famous, or popular), men when young desire good looking woman. Young woman can date older guys, but when they are older is really difficult to date young men, for the men is the opposite. Also, when woman gets older(30’s) now she want to find a husband, but now she may be more successful(richer) and wont date poor men(If lets say 5% men has good salary she has trouble to finding an available men). The men when is older can date young girl with less education and money. So you see, no one is the devil, they just are not phased in time.

  10. Joshua

    My advice for anyone is to stop chasing women. The number one rule is to let THEM want YOU! Not the other way around.
    You too would feel a little less of attraction to a girl if she would be too pushy and in a hurry to grow the relationship and get as far as possible.
    All my life i have chased women, when other girls were coming to me and showing interest, instead i was looking for the stupid spoiler whores who got plenty of attention from guy on a daily basis. Those bitches won’t care about you being interested NOR being uninsterested (aka acting like you are an asshole). They will just move on to the hot or cute or interesting or misterious guy who she is attracted to and came to her (like having you cake and eating it too).
    OH, one more thing: EVERY F****ING GUY thinks that if he took the courage to go and talk to the head cheerleader he has the first place on her list. DUDE, there were like a gazzillion other guys who did that before you (TODAY).
    So get your head outta your ass and start looking next to you to that shy nerd who offered to teach you phisics or help you with something at work INSTEAD of keep feeding the hot whore’s ego with compliments that just make you look stupid, horny and desperate.

    1. Swabbie

      Spot on
      I always laughed at pathetic man comments on social networks hot chicks profiles like omg you are so sexy or gorgeous
      They are only feeding ego of these bitches

    2. GuilhermMPP

      I feel like I never manage to attract women I find attractive, at least not for a medium-long time. When I thinking I am attracting them, they soon disappear and show disinterest. I like nerd girls, but none (at least none who was attractive) came and showed interest to me (orif this happened, it did for a very short time period)

  11. Dude

    I’m up to the point where i literally don’t give a shit anymore, if something comes along, fine, if not, i don’t care. No tinder, no facebook, no social media, it’s bad for the mental health. If i want to have sex i pay escorts. Period.

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      I hope you find someone…but I know from experience that this isn’t an easy task.

    2. GuilhermMPP

      I agree with you I am gradually starting to do this

  12. Marky Mark

    Another excellent article, Truth Seeker. As depressing as it being an average looking male, at least guys like us have one thing going for us- height. You’re 6’1, I’m 6’0. I can’t imagine the pain and suffering guys 5’7 and under must endure in today’s times. An automatic disqualification for most women.

    1. Prof Plum

      I have met many manlets in my time – most of them are very angry at life. A few get lucky and find someone to marry young, the rest are doomed to a very unhappy existence.

  13. Ordo Malleus

    While I agree on some points in the article, as they are undeniably true, the bitterness and resentment towards women is just “shining” through your words (as is in most articles about relationships, women, sex, etc.).

    What I really find disgenuine is the “finding love” sequence. Come on… bruh, like you waked one morning and started searching for it in a dating app. Please be honest to yourself and to your readers. You wanted to get laid (nothing wrong with that), got rejected X times, you felt very bad about it. That’s it, finding love has nothing to do with it.

    The world of relantionships between a man and a woman got a little bit complicated with all the social media bulshit, no doubt. That doesn’t mean meeting and creating a meaningful relationship with a decent and honest woman is rocket science.

    I know I am going “anecdotal mode” here, but so are you, so:

    I am your absolute “average Joe” type of guy. Not too short, not too tall, I don’t think I am bad looking, but also surely not someone women will turn around to look at. I have a stable job, but I am not swimming in money, nor are my relatives. My hobbys are also not usually interesting to women (video and boardgames, books, sports). I believe, maybe wrongfully, I am above average intelligence, but I doubt that finding a cure for cancer is my destiny. I also possess pretty much zero online presense and except like 6 months on Facebook nearly a decade ago, never had any profiles on any platforms, especially dating ones.

    Well, for the almost 33 years I’ve been around, I had 4 serious relationships (somewhere around the 2-year mark), a handful of shorter engagements and I’ve turned down at least five or six women that were serious about me. Now, I am certainly not a Casanova type guy and I am not claiming to date models or some Insta/Facebook/whatever princesses, but most women I’ve been with were quite nice ladies. Exactly one of my relationships ended because of the girl and even on this occasion there were “circumstanses” and I understand her decision.

    The only thing that I found matters is this – Stand your ground. That’s it. You are what you are and surely have deficencies, but so does everybody around you. Of course you have to do a compromise here and there, but going far out of your way to please someone has worked… never. Of course a woman will be suspicious if you start constantly messaging her, calling her and act like a happy puppy after she says anything nice about you. Wouldn’t you? I mean, sure, men have higher tolerance about this, but if a woman starts acting like I am the center of her universe after five lines of text and a brief call – well, there is something rotten in paradise.

    The only advice I can give – and it is surely written in countless self-improvement books – is find peace with yourself. If YOU do not like YOU, noone else will. Your poison (and it is poison, believe me) starts spilling out and makes you unattractive to the people you interact with. Yeah, the world is a shitty place, life is hard, people are often mean, dumb and disgusting, but going full misanthrope is very rarely working well on your psyche. We NEED our pink glasses from time to time. I am not saying to lose your awareness (i.e. completely forgetting our cruel and unfair reality), but don’t carry that burden every waking minute like a brooding cloud above you. Because even if people do not see it, they surely sense it. And I don’t want or care about your cloud, I have my own thunderstorms brewing, thank you.

  14. Emre

    I’ll just become a femboy and be a gay instead than f*CK this sh*t

    1. Prof Plum

      To a genuinely heterosexual man, the thought of putting someone elses penis in his mouth is about as repulsive as it gets. Don’t even get me started on anal sex.

      I would honestly rather cut my balls off with a rusty kitchen knife than have gay sex.

  15. Jedward

    Great article. Your analysis of the modern messed-up relationships between men and women is spot on.

    If you want to beat the system, and are young (and tall) enough, you can turn the biology on its head and – become a sperm donor!

    That same modern society has produced a whole load of highly independent women who hit 30+ and want a child at all costs. You can father many kids with zero responsibility as a result if you really want to beat the biological system.

    It’s a mad world.

  16. David

    Hey truthseeker,

    I got a question if you see this message. I can relate to a lot of the things you say in your articles. I’m 35 years old and consider myself to be an average looking guy at best. And throughout my life I’ve dated only a couple of girls.

    However, when I think about it, I realize that the reason I’ve had such few dates in my whole life was not because there would be no women interested in me, but because I wouldn’t find them attractive enough.

    Those women would think I’m such a nice guy, that I’m funny and smart. And even though they knew I’m not a good looking guy, have not attended college and make very little money, they seemed not to care.

    But because they were not attractive for me I wouldn’t go on a date with them. Especially because most of them were fat, and I see zero attractiveness in fat girls.

    On the other hand, I was able to date a very attractive girl only once. She had beautiful green eyes. Sadly I was only able to keep her as my girlfriend for 6 weeks, despite all my efforts. The reason she broke up with me? Well, despite having told me a couple of times that she loved me to the moon, I’ve noticed that, as a guy who hasn’t attended college and is stuck in a badly paid dead end job, she’d not envisioned a very good financial future for her.

    Of course she herself would’ve denied this fact. After all, there is no such thing as a gold digger woman. And we all know that women only want a guy who respects and treats them well.

    Anyway, my question is: when you guys say that women are not interested in you cause you’re not attractive or rich, are you referring to all women or just the attractive ones?

    Cause in my experience, I found many non attractive girls who would’ve dated me if I’d wanted to.

    So, what would be the explanation for that?

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      I’d say that this applies to women that you see as a match. Meaning, women who are at least as attractive as you and from a similar social stratum.

      P.S. I don’t think she ever loved you. And I don’t think you should force yourself to like women that you don’t. If you don’t like fat women, ignore them.

    2. Arthur

      No offense but I think that the reason you get many ugly girls wanting to be with you is basically because they have no choice. And if they think you’re smart and funny then I can see you must give them a fair amount of attention.

      So, here’s what they think: “I wish I could date a successful good-looking guy. But these will not even talk to me. Too bad I’m not pretty. And to make things worse, I’m needy and getting old. Hey, here’s this pretty smart and funny guy who gives me plenty of attention. Ok, he’s penniless and not good-looking but, you know, it would be better to be with him than alone.”

  17. Nick

    One disagreement in this otherwise good article is when he calls the high value male the very hot or the rich.

    1. Very hot gets you nowhere as a guy, if you are not alpha. Good looks is not the prime directive for women as it is for men with women. And being alpha is not about being rich. There are beta males that are rich. They will attract women, but the women will dominate them.

    2. I’ve seen relatively poor guys, who were alpha in their behavior, get lots of attention from any female including 10/10. Being alpha is about behavior. To give you an example, Putin is a good example of an alpha, and I mean regardless of his political power. If you look at the way he behaves in any setting, there is power drawn to him, you can immediately detect that he is the alpha dog in the room.

    Its like this with every male. A woman will just pick up on that and be attracted to the alpha. And again, I’ve seen balding guys with beards, relatively unfit, attracting women whilst other better looking guys that were nonetheless acting beta were shunned by the woman. The way the alpha guys behaved was telling: They didn’t speak much, they ordered a magnum sized bottle (to assert their dominance), and they didn’t hesitate to touch the girls (grabbed their shoulders, etc). All of these guys were not very good looking and working class background. They made the rich guys look like beta male chumps.

    Now the rich guys that are beta will often feel like they have the last laugh…Because they get to drive home in a lambo. Nonetheless they are not the alpha. The woman even if she sleeps with the rich guy, will probably cheat with the alpha and take the relationship with the rich guy as a provider relationship (which is terrible for any man to have…You’re literally living with a woman that’s using you for your money and fucks the gardener or something).

    To become alpha…You have to stop being a guy who over-analyses and who stops giving a shit, who just takes when he wants to take, and who doesn’t need anything from anyone, including girls. It’s a state of mind.

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