False Concepts Of Fake Natural Bodybuilders That Keep You In The Loop Can you handle the antivirus?

| by Truth Seeker |


image source: https://pixabay.com/bg/users/Chraecker-5555/

We are not machines, but we share many similarities with computers.

We can be programmed to believe anything.

This is how our perception of reality is formed.

Everybody is convinced that his program is the best one.

Everybody thinks that he is right, but sometimes – it’s a virus speaking, not the truth.

The false ideas inserted in your head are nothing but malicious software meant to extract your resources. The goal is to put you in a serving state for the rest of your life.

This is seen in every aspect of life from muscle building to love. We have programs/apps in our heads convincing us that what we are doing is right or wrong. They are there to navigate us and influence our mental management.

Everyone is fighting to insert his version of the program in your head since the beginning.

A tiny part of that malicious software is focused on muscle building.

Today, it’s time to activate the anti-virus force once again and expose some false training ideas that have penetrated the natty firewall through the heresy spread by the writers of muscle fiction.


Muscle maniacs love the story about Arnold who successfully transformed his average calves into absolute monsters.

Here’s the short version: Arnold went to his mentor Reg Park and started training his calves on a regular basis with super heavy weights. Some sources say 600lbs, others go up to 1000lbs. The logic behind the plan was simple – the calves get a ton of work from basic everyday movement and therefore need unreal motivation to grow. The method worked. Arnold returned with high-end calves that could compete with the best.

That makes for a nice story and some parts of it may even be true, but this still doesn’t mean that you can overcome your bad calf genetics with training. Arnold’s calves were never really that bad. They were average at the very least. Moreover, Arnold has some of the best muscle building genetics. Drugs or no drugs, he had a look that many consider unmatched to this day. How he trained is irrelevant. You will never be him just like he will never be you.

In real life, hypertrophy is a mythical process that almost never takes place past a certain point.

This is even truer when it comes to calves.

Here’s an epic truth that will make some motivational muscle speakers want to kill themselves.


That’s a fact of life that even the hormones injected in bodybuilders on a daily basis cannot change. There are many professional Olympia competitors who take everything there is to take currently and still end up with exceptionally small, sleepy calves.

What if I told you that I have seen old women with calves bigger than those of professional bodybuilders? It happens all the time and people who leave the house will back me on this one. Look around, you will see a ton of people walking with big and even striated calves. Those are not from training in 99.9% of the cases. Sure, if someone has decent calf genetics, he or she will amplify the size even further with hardcore exercise, but the bulk of the muscle will come from his genetic preprogramming. If he or she was programmed for calf bulk, he will have it. Meanwhile, muscle hungry ectomorphs will keep on raising calf after calf only to get nothing in return.

Sorry, bros! There’s not enough growth hormone for your calves.

Here’s a logical question:

What are we doing wrong and what are the old ladies with the huge calves doing right?


I don’t care about your calf routines.

I don’t care that you are bulking.

I also don’t care that you have the ”right” formula.

There are no formulas.

I don’t care that you’ve built a special machine to do ”heavy ass calf raises”.

At the end of the day, your calves will remain small if they are destined to be small.

Does this mean that all calf training is basically pointless?

No. It just means that most of the time training your calves for hypertrophy is a complete waste of time. Nevertheless, having strong calves and Achilles tendons is very important for sports and life in general.

How do you know whether you have good or bad calf genetics?

The short version: Look at your calves. If they are big and stand out, you have good calf genetics.

The long version: When it comes to size, calves with long muscle bellies and short Achilles tendons dominate. Longer muscles are bigger muscles. On the other hand, the lengthier the tendon, the less potential there is for muscle growth. Calves with long tendons are known as high calves and are often seen on sprinters.


One of the biggest lies ever told is that most people fail to build muscle because of poor training. The gurus love their programs and do everything to protect their little babies. Whenever a method fails, the individual is to blame instead of the routine. It’s never the fault of the program. It’s always the person doing it that takes the blame for the lack of results.

Of course, sometimes people are really lazy and don’t do the work because it’s easier to stay at home and swipe that iFone, but there are many, many lifters who train sufficiently to earn their fair share of growth. Some even train much harder than the Hodge Twins and the Jeff Seids of this world.

I can be accused of many things, but not trying hard isn’t one of them. I am no stranger to brutality in the gym. I know how it feels to be mentally destroyed just by the thought of working out. I know how it feels to have aching bones, joints and muscles in the morning every day. I’ve pushed through the pain a few too many times. And yet, here I am – no muscle mass beyond the basic fibers I was born with.

That’s why every time I hear someone accuse natties of being inadequate in the iron dungeon, I want to slap that person.

The reality is that fake natties don’t train that hard. Just look at the popular YouTubers. What’s so special about their training? What are they doing that the natties aren’t? 

The programs are the same: Starting Strength, 5/3/1, StrongLifts, MadCow, SaneCow, Bill Starr 5×5, Reg Park 5×5, Gironda 8×8, PowerToThePeople, 4×4 Training, Smolov, Smolov Junior, Sheiko…etc.

The food is the same: protein this, protein that.

What’s the difference? There’s no difference.

The natties train just like the fake natties and still don’t look like the guys with millions of subscribers.

What’s the secret behind this contrast?

Simple. Drugs. Drugs. Drugs.


When I started a version of Starting Strength and failed to grow (adding fat cells to your body is not my idea of growing) it was explained to me by lifting experts that Starting Strength does not have sufficient volume to elicit hypertrophy. I bought this concept on credit, even though today I see clearly that this statement is dumb for a few too many reasons.

I fixed the issue and did a ton volume routines over the years. I am not stranger to Serge Nubret’s and other pump routines. I’ve done it all – 10×10, 10×3, 5×10…etc.

Not only that but the last few months, I’ve been doing dips with 26.5kg added to me for about 100 reps distributed in ladders – 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6. By the time I am done, my shoulders and triceps begin to express extraterrestrial hate towards me. Despite all of this madness, I cannot report growth of ANY kind.

The reason is simple – more volume DOES NOT equal more growth.

The only thing it equals is an improved work capacity. You become more efficient at doing the task at hand over and over again.

Forget about routines like Boring But Big, German Volume, Serge Nubret’s Pump circus and other nonsense. It’s over. They don’t work…unless you count the placebo in your head and the mirror as an effect. It’s all an illusion.

The reality is that the popular muscle heroes have been promoting high volume training for three main reasons:

  1. It pumps the muscle and prepares your physique for video and photo shoots.
  2. It fatigues you deeply and makes you feel like you are doing something right.
  3. High-volume training is easier on the central nervous system than high-intensity training. 

We all know that fake natties are afraid of heavy weights and rightfully so. Drugs make you stronger immediately even if your joints have not been prepared for the task. Smart fake natties lift lighter than their muscles want.

Big Lie 4: Legs Grow Fast

Many believe that the legs represent a muscle group that grows fast. There are all kinds of high volume leg routines meant to add inches to your upper legs and transform them into tree trunks. As you can already guess, the reality is a little harsher.

Legs don’t grow faster unless your genetics allow them to.

The extra size coming from those routines is fat due to overfeeding. One of the best places for storing fat are the legs and hips. You can add slabs of fat there before looking like a bulking soldier.

When a permabulker says that he can’t find pants because of his newly acquired leg size, he actually means that there isn’t a single XXL shop to buy clothing suited for his new fat logs.

Big Lie 5: Getting Big is The Result Of Muscle Accumulation Over Decades

”But scooby said that you can keep on gaining muscle for 20+ years…”


This is not how life works. Gains are never linear forever. You can’t keep on adding muscle indefinitely. Everything comes to an end at one point. Muscle growth is not like hair growth. It stops sooner or later regardless of your wishes or the broscience on YouBrainwashTube. Muscle growth is more like height growth. It ceases rather fast, and there’s nothing you can do about It.

The idea that you can keep producing muscle forever is just an explanation abused by fake natties.

Big Lie 6: There’s a big secret

Many believe that growth is hidden in a safe that you open with a proper combination of reps and sets, and even if one digit is wrong, you still can’t access it.

That’s a stupid and false ideology created by the system to keep you chasing your tail.

Every guru says that his combination of sets and reps works, but that’s a lie.  You don’t fail to grow like the big bros because you don’t have the right numbers. You fail because your idols are on drugs and may also have better genetics. That’s it. There are no mysteries despite your desires.

Big Lie 7: There are many truths

People think there are 10 different kinds of truths. There’s supposedly a truth for everyone – for you, for me, for each person. That’s false. There’s only ONE TRUTH.

I don’t know the truth. All I know is that it exists.

Yes, there are many roads to the truth, but they all lead to the same place. The pathway variety does not change the fact that the truth is absolute.

Think about the mechanism of getting pregnant. Whatever the method, eventually the swimmer has to reach the egg one way or another. That’s the only way.

It’s the same with the truth. You can dance around the castle, but at the end – there’s only one king.

They want you to believe in the existence of various truths to keep you in the labyrinth.

Big Lie 8: There’s a serious advancement in nutrition allowing you to train harder and achieve better results

We love talking about human progress.

”It’s the 21st century! We are so ahead of the past!”

That may be true if we are talking about technological progress, which is the only part of our world that’s seemingly developing, but nutrition in the everyday life of the modern man is not better. If anything, the world has never been fuller of cancer-inducing foods. Powders mixed with sugar do not change that one bit.

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  1. Nick

    Brilliant as always.Fuck scamers like ct fletcher and mike o hearn and their fake motivation.

  2. D3

    I player soccer, skated, and road my bike everywhere as a kid, but did very little upper body exercises. Today, I find that if I train my legs, they respond too fast and too large relative to my upper body. I relegate legs to kickboxing and a bit of running. I suspect that our activities when young can (to some degree) influence our physique when older. As you stated in your article, however, the quintessence of muscle growth and potential size are our genetics.

    1. Yen

      This individual has fully bought into the hypertrophy deception, and is describing to us a fantasy world which he is stuck in. He thinks he can easily make his legs huge just if he even trains just a little bit. He is so ignorant, he proudly announces that he refuses to train one of the most important body parts. While the rest of us are grinding away doing endless squats and deadlifts just to gain a couple pounds of muscle, this guy is afraid his legs might blow up overnight if he does any weight-bearing exercise.
      It’s incredible how much nerve this guy has to be posting this here. TruthSeeker has been training for years. He tried so hard to find the secret to growth; and when he realized it was all a lie, he started working twice as hard to bring the truth to the rest of us.
      D3, we are all hustling trying to make it as natties and you talking through your ass about how riding your scooter as a kid gave you freakish leg development. You ignore the information in the article. You ignore the entire purpose of the website. You are talking about bodybuilding, but you don’t even bodybuild. You are just a pussy who equates “kickboxing and a little bit of running” with actual training…
      Maybe he should just get off this site and go play on his iFone 🙂

      1. Shaun

        Oh dear oh dear.. talk about a cult mentality. Jeez it’s not a cult I want to belong to. The cult of the skinny guy.

        1. Yen

          Not training legs is a bad idea. Do you disagree?

          1. Shaun

            Dude, it’s not about that. I have squatted 600lbs before. It’s about the people who follow this blog becoming slavishly devoted to the rantings of a lunatic.

        2. Gladiator

          Sure, take your juice and grow bro, there are people who have been training for more than half a century and still get the “Do you even lift bro?”
          Indoctrinated fools have no place on this website. There are a lot of monkeys out there to play alongwith. Be a happy monkey.

    2. muji

      yeah, you made a good point. i also think the same way.

    3. Shane

      I have a similar story with abs. Growing up I didn’t really know how to work out so all I did was situps and pushups as a teenager. At one point I was doing 1000+ situps and 300+ pushups on alternate nights. Anyways surprise surprise I have lower back problems and haven’t done a sit up/ crunch in 5 years but even when I was at like 25% body fat I still had a 6 pack. Didn’t work for my chest though… damn

  3. Shaun

    Once again, a negative, worthless article.

    When you see things that you know from personal experience are completely incorrect it’s hard to stay silent.

    For Example: Big Lie 8. I guarantee anyone on here that I can show them the right nutrition and pre workout loading to get more reps with more weight every single workout they do.

    Why are you people even listening to this fool?

    1. Yen

      Yes, following a good diet based on common sense, and what works for you will help. But he is saying that no miracle diet is ever going to come out. Eating 40g carbs an hour before your workout instead of 20g carbs half an hour before is not going to make you as big as the steroid users.
      However, this is one way the gurus try to sell things to us. They show us a small guy who has been training a long time with little results, but then suddenly gets really muscular and shredded. The gurus peddling the diet programs attribute it to a new macro split or some special superfoods or carb cycling or whatever. But they keep silent about the key ingredient to the transformation: generous helpings of vitamin S.
      All that the article means is that there is no magic bullet. Of course it is not saying that good diet is not important.

    2. Lee

      Couldn’t agree more shaun. To me it Seems like these articles are just a place for the author to voice his inadequacies. Rather than speaking the truth, it is just giving pessimists a reason to slack on their nutrition, work ethic etc, or even give up.

      I can assure you if you work hard in the gym and eat the right type of food that you will get closer to the body you want.

    3. jai

      When people can be so shitty brained to listen to fletcher and mike o hearn, I think this guy packs a lot more sense though some poin saved, how many thousands of dollars have been prevented frodts are debatable. If your so knowledgeable start a blog , else avoid all these negative comments. It’s easy to just keep picking faults. This guy has done a commendable job exposing fake natties.

  4. Shaun

    Actually what it is saying that no diet gets you anywhere and that unless you use steroids you will get no gains.

    This is an entirely negative site based on the rantings of a very unhappy individual.

    He was a skinny guy who swallowed the dream that he could be big. He idolised the images of steroid assisted people and then became disillusioned when he found that his body didn’t respond as others.

    Instead of assessing his body type and adjusting his training accordingly, he chose instead to spew vemon and hatred on anyone who found gaining muscle a little easier than him. What a pathetic thing to do.

    Getting better results than me? You’re a drug user.

    I have news for you and him and all the skinny followers of this toxic person. When you are at the bottom of the genetic barrel for putting on muscle, it doesn’t mean that every single person who puts on muscle more easily than you is on steroids. It means that you are at the bottom of the genetic barrel.

    1. luka

      I agree, he has little evidence to back up his claims. Technically, I would be considered on steroids, lamo. This shit is a scam.

      1. -

        If you are so confident about your shape, it will not be a problem for you to post a photo to support your claims ;). Face can be blurred out.

      2. Dbolish

        I have seen lots of dude claiming to be natural just before asking the trainer for a good dose of ole Dbol.

        Good diet and excercise is important, but “Adjusting” is myth, I wasted countless dollars adjusting diets and working my ass off in the gym. I built muscle that got burned after trying to cut despite paying good trainers, I got in good shape but never what I wanted. Shortly after my last try I learned from a Trainer that all the buffed dudes at the gym were on juice.

        The guy writing this page might sound bitter but he is spot on, the fitness industry is built on drugs and lies. Its funny though I enjoy the gym better now, no pressure from fake expectations.

      3. Kostas

        “Instead of assessing his body type and adjusting his training accordingly”
        Exactly the type of b**shit^3 he is referring to in his articles.

  5. Robert

    Good work, as usual.
    And Guys, don’t Open some dort of cult here. Use the best of your brain cells and some day you will see it…
    My 2 Cents: I had an accident in march which forced me to stay away from Training and much Protein and that really opened my Eyes.

    Have a good One ?

    1. Mike

      I think you don’t get his message, I agree that he is cranky and that he exacerbates his rantings, it is part of his charming. He always says growing is possible not just by a lot and genetically determined. Any youtube star promise you “tonz of gainz brah”. Pick whichever side you like. I personally tend to go his way. Fake natties and a corrupt industry are the ones to blame. Supplements don’t do much for you and this is with science on hand. Many of the industry products are based on one compound that works like caffeine and useless proprietary blends that are useless.

  6. Brett

    Chris dickerson had a twin brother who was not a bodybuilder. Yet their calves were nearly the same size…big. Genetics are calves. Yen seems to have handled Mr hero, 18-19 inch arm, secret holder, truth bringer, who also calls himeself shaun. So i wont comment on it. I will just note that it is noteworthy that shaun keeps stating how these articles are pathetic and yet he keeps commenting which means hes obviously reading them everytime. Shaun might be suffering from multiple personality disorder. Back on point this artice is excellent. Its against the grain. These days the truth is against the grain. Shaun ide love to get into a discussion with you and pick your brain about how you train, your diet, your methods, teach me your ways. Oh and i know that when you get to your 50’s your testosterone levels decrease because of age, so if u could also let me know how to increase that, it would be great.

    1. Shaun

      Interesting. Another fan boy. Jeez guys. Every single time. Question what the cult leader is saying and get attacked.

      As it is I don’t actually read them. I skim them. I see the same vitriol over and over and shake my head.

      This is a prime example of the vitriol i skim and also an example of what is wrong with the guy’s training.

      “Why would you go to the gym 5 days a week, lift dirty iron and share oxygen with annoying morons constantly judging themselves and you?”

      Yes indeed why? Why for example would an ectomorph train 5 days a week to begin with? Sounds to me like the guy not only has shitty genetics, but also has no idea about training.

      So I am responding because it saddens me that you skinny guys, rather than working out how to train to suit your genetics, give up and find another bozo who echoes your experience and say he’s right. That is a totally negative way to approach anything. I am trying to say to you disciples that you are following the wrong dude.

      You say you want answers on how I train to get big? Easy – 2 days a week. One day heavy one day light. No more than 4 sets a body part. No more than 16 sets total in a workout. Never go to failure. When hitting a new peak, back cycle the next week.

      I have no idea what my testosterone levels are. I don’t check. I just know I can lift heavy. To raise testosterone levels isn’t hard though. 3 to 6 eggs a day will up your testosterone regardless.

      There’s lots of other stuff, but that is just a summary.

      1. TheK

        All of your points are just basic “broscience” though. They aren’t going to change that genetics that you were born with. Once you hit your natural strength and muscle mass maximum, there is no going beyond unless you take drugs.

      2. TheK

        Also there is no such thing as “training to suit your genetics.” training is the same for everyone. The thing that is different is what maximum that particular individual can reach.

        1. Shaun

          That is the most ignorant comment ever. Training is not the same for everyone.

          It just goes to show how blinkered you acolytes of this guy are.

          Training is in no way the same for an extreme ectomorph as it is for an extreme endomorph. The endomorph’s capacity to workout and recover from the workout would far exceed that of the ectomorph. 5 days a week training for them might be fine.

          As for the “broscience” comment. Once again a dismissive comment in attempt to belittle my stance. For the same reason. You have hitched your wagon to this guy, And that’s that.

          All of the stuff that gets me results comes from my study of weight training from many sources and then the application of that on myself, using what works and discarding what doesn’t work. Fairly simple approach really.

          Yes everyone does have genetic limits. However, for most of the bitter people following this guy, they would be surprised if they stopped listening to the negative talk of this guy how much further they can go from where they are before hitting those limits.

          Listening to a bunch of skinny guys complaining that they have hit their genetic limit, while doing nothing different to see if that’s true is like listening to a fat person complain, “I’ve done everything and I can’t lose weight” (other than diet and exercise).

          Debating you true believers is like debating young earth creationists. No matter what you say, it won’t shake their world view, no matter how delusional it is.

          1. TheK

            There is no such thing as an ectomorph/endomorph/etc. The only real difference between people is how much muscle they can gain and how fast they can gain it.

            The idea that ectomorphs are more prone to “burning muscle” is complete nonsense. If it were true, then every skinny guy would eventually burn through all of his muscle just through daily exertion.

            Being a skinny guy with less muscle is actually an adaptation for dealing with times of food scarcity. In a starvation scenario, the “ripped” guys would die off first. The fat guys would survive because they can burn through fat, and the skinny guys would survive because they need less calories to sustain themselves.

            If anyone is a cult follower here, it’s you. You are the one trying to deny reality and basic human limitations with pop-fitness advice. Training is not really hard when you get down to it. Sure, some people are lazy, but the main reason only a few people become “ripped” is because they have amazing genetics and often use drugs as well. That said, I now think everyone should do basic training and exercise just for the health benefits.

          2. Shaun

            I’m a cult follower? A cult of one? Once again I tell my reality is that putting on a good amount of muscle isn’t hard, and you to me my own personal experience is not valid because you believe what the truthfairy says and I’m a cult follower?

      3. jai

        Ur a vitriolic fool who doesn’t have the gall or the balls to go bash bastard’s like mike hearn and all those fake natties. They are playing havoc with young lived showing false dreams.instead u slam these people who are showing the truth ( may not be all at least a lot).. if Ur so incensed abouy lies attack those fake natties who do a million times more harm than this guy. And if u don’t have the balls to do it, just shut up. We don’t cynical fools like u. U don’t like him, get the fuck off his page and start something productive Mr pathetic keyboard warrior

      4. jim

        so you can squat fully 600lbs?

        Post on youtube…go on settle it once and for all.

        (here come the excuses)

  7. Brett

    Ectomorphs, endomorphs… It doesnt matter, muscle mass potential is limited. Brock lesnar could have some of the best upper body genetics. However all the training in the world even by a person with great genetics, will not get you his upper body mass, why? Simple, drugs. No methods, reps, adjustments to your body type, sets, will change that. This is not a cult. This is just an argument. Its possible the only place where true naturals can express themselves without being shot down. That would make the rest of the internet a cult, where everyone can achieve what they set their mids to…if u imagine your biceps as mountains they will become mountains…who said that? Who’s the fool who actually believes that?

    1. TheK

      There is no such thing as an ectomorph/endomorph/etc. The only real difference between people is how much muscle they can gain and how fast they can gain it.

      The idea that ectomorphs are more prone to “burning muscle” is complete nonsense. If it were true, then every skinny guy would eventually burn through all of his muscle just through daily exertion.

      Being a skinny guy with less muscle is actually an adaptation for dealing with times of food scarcity. In a starvation scenario, the “ripped” guys would die off first. The fat guys would survive because they can burn through fat, and the skinny guys would survive because they need less calories to sustain themselves.

      If anyone is a cult follower here, it’s you. You are the one trying to deny reality and basic human limitations with pop-fitness advice. Training is not really hard when you get down to it. Sure, some people are lazy, but the main reason only a few people become “ripped” is because they have amazing genetics and often use drugs as well. That said, I now think everyone should do basic training and exercise just for the health benefits.

  8. Brett

    I eat four eggs a day. Train each muscle group once every six days. Im 6’1 and have long muscle bellies everywhere except for my calves. Sounds like good genetics to me. Yet ive never weighed over 86 KG. My arms only measure 40 cm. But ive tried everything. The reason i cant grow anymore is because ive reached my limit, i havent gained any visible size for the past two years. The workout you’ve given, is only that a workout, it wont change anything. I know you will say different, but doint they all. Ive accepted it. I cant be dazzled by reps, sets, workout volume, frequency, the shit you are tryin to sell me. Why? Ive tried it all. All you are preaching is a low frequency, lengthly recovery method….to 18-19 inch arms. You must really think im a nube. Unfortunately i doint have time to sit around and type all day. I have things to do. I hope when im in my 50’s one day im not arguing online with skinny kids half my age. Proof that 18-19 inch arms doint get you a life. Burn. (By the way eating eggs does not significantly increase testosterone levels, its just a form of protein, not unless they are giving the chickens testosterone).

    1. Shaun

      Whatever. Carry on as you were. Accept that this fool is a god. Doesn’t change my life.

      You kind of prove my point. You people following a fool such as this are as embittered as him.

    2. Shaun

      By the way. I didn’t ask you to accept or endorse how I train. You asked. I told you.

      Your rejection of them says more about you than me. As does your dismissive, “I have things to do” comment. This sort of stuff happens when people have internalised an opinion and see the questioning of that opinion as an attack on themselves.

      1. Mike

        I think you don’t get his message, I agree that he is cranky and that he exacerbates his rantings, it is part of his charming. He always says growing is possible not just by a lot and genetically determined. Any youtube star promise you “tonz of gainz brah”. Pick whichever side you like. I personally tend to go his way. Fake natties and a corrupt industry are the ones to blame. Supplements don’t do much for you and this is with science on hand. Many of the industry products are based on one compound that works like caffeine and useless proprietary blends that are useless.

      2. jim

        did you post a picture of your physique? Where can we view it? next to the video of you fully squatting 600lbs? Link please.

    3. Zher0

      I agree 100%. I’m on my fifties, been working for 25 years, ectomorph, tried all supplements on earth, walked on the wild side for a year, trtied all routines, worked as hard as I would vomit.. and all I can say is that TruthSeeker advice is not to look any further. He is right all the way!!
      I just hope he does not take notice of all the haters (maybe fake natties in disguise) and keep writting this noshit articles!!
      PD: Eggs do not raise your testosterone. I eat 3 every single day, and can’t remember when was the last time I woke up with a hard on!!

    4. kle

      185 cm and 86kg …that is pretty solid weight and size … 40 cm is for big arm size for natty …
      I am 182 cm, 35 cm arms (I have light bone structure, 6.75 inch wrists), weight only 74kg and whenever I go past 75 kg I start on putting fat. I went up to 82 kg but I looked worse. Sure, I gained a cm here and there but it doesn’t matter because it was fat and when I cut to have a something you could call 6 pack I ended up around 74 kg again. For my lower abs to be really definedI would probably have to weight 70 – 72kg.
      So yeah for your genetics 86 kg is limit, for me, light framed guy, is around 75 kg. But that is what being natural is about, it is the fake industry that makes you believe that you are “small”.

    5. Fatman

      “My arms only measure 40 cm.”

      Pretty sure that makes you a steroid user by Nattyornot standards.

      Sorry brah.

  9. Esteban

    Forget about muscle growth, ideal protein amount intake, ideal set/rep schemes, ideal routines, ideal workout length,..etc..etc. Just train hard enough and WELL…and listen to your body. Have fun. “Well” is an other issue. Also forget about aesthetics in order to impress people (women..friends..men..strangers). It does NOT make any sense and nobody REALLY cares. How would you train if you were alone in a place -under hard circumstances- where you should be able to run fast, swim, climb, lift and fight in order to survive and stay healthy..without caring about protein and knowing that nobody will give a fuck about how your body look like? Just answer the question and forget bodybuilding disillusion.

    1. Visto

      yup exactly natty or not make it seem like being 82-86 kg is impossible for 6ft individuals basically all Natty’s should be around 70 kg and that’s it… he even classify Mike Matthews as a steroids user and that Mike Matthews information is misleading …quite amusing when you realise Mike is one of the guys who ain’t expecting a natty to gain no more than 40-50 lbs in their life time…although Mike has a supplement line however keep in mind he has refund option if his supplements don’t work which something you rarely find. being 180+lbs is not a monster physique but the guy in here expects people to only achieve physiques like that of Bruc Lee, bred pit hahaha… I won’t be surprised if he thinks Meihdi from stronglifts is on steroids

  10. The Joker

    Seems like some people are really missing the point here:

    -Yes, you can grow muscle naturally
    -This amount varies from person to person (genetics)
    -Even the most gifted individuals won’t build as much as the bodybilding media and supplement companies are trying to convince you in order to sell stuff (I would even say that “natural” bodybuilding standards today are unrealistic even for people on low doses).

    It’s not about being negative, it´s just about having the knowludge to make a informed decision. Based on reality you can either:

    a) Train naturally, in a non obsessed way, and not compare yourself with steroid users


    b) Use drugs in doses and types that fit your goals

    Either way, you will be better off than all the people obsessing over training and nutrition detail and frustrating themselves because they never meet the fake standards that are pushed on them.

  11. TheK

    What Truth Seeker is trying to say is that 90% of your muscle gains are going to come from genetics. Of course doing a basic training program and eating healthier are important in order to maintain your health and physique. However, there is no training program or diet that will allow you to overcome your genetics. Only drugs will do that.

    The main reason that modern bodybuilders are so huge compared to say, bodybuilders from the 20s and 30s, is due to steroids and other PEDs.

  12. Derrick Dunstable

    The common response to this article is similar to others, and it’s either (1) flat out total acceptance of the editorial material or (2) a 100% accusation that the writer (TruthSeeker) is a bitter, disillusioned skinny hater who gave up the weight training game because he can’t look like the gifted muscle boys.

    Sadly, many of these typical comments are wrong and misguided either way.

    I have been a veteran gym rat for 23 years, have trained more ways than I care to remember, paid merticulous detail to diet according, and have tried many of the most popular supplements over the years, and much of what I read on this site is spot on, with about a 30% disagreement on other things. It’s a refreshing look and alternative opinion, I will give TruthSeeker that, and much of what he has to about bodybuilding and the world we live I am in agreement with, whether hater or not; I don’t know him and neither does anyone else on this forum.

    Fact is there is so much BS out there that exposing it is almost impossible without sounding like a hater; it’s such a daunting task, where do you begin? For starters, there are supplements and diet strategies that do work towards making you a better, stronger, bigger and leaner version of yourself, but let’s not drink the spiked punch; we are essentially talking about supplements to help keep you healthy, recover and ensure that you are getting adequate nutrients. (Unless you’re talking quasi-legal prohormones and steroids, and ephedrine type fat burners, which are actually drugs and not food supplements.) Will they make a drastic improvement in your performance and/orappearance? If you are already eating enough quality food, and you’re not malnourished or have a medical condition, then the answer no.

    I will add that it’s hard to refute many of the things on this site, with regards to the lies of the muscle cartel, when you have too much first hand exposure and know too much about bodybuilding and the fitness industry as a whole. Many here may be newcomers, but I distinctly remember when T-Nation fist went online (and in print for a while), and they were supposed to be the bad ass, cutting edge informers about bodybuilding, serious training and nutrition. I will not deny that they still produce and provide some relevant information, but who is young enough to remember their original format and how much it change and became more “commercialized” over the years? I remember classic frequent article like The Deal Pool (which exposed the dramatic drug abuse in pro bodybuilding), If They Had The Balls (which covered the fluff and malarki of the muscle mags), and other such industry exposing pieces that went against the grain of your typical online bodybuilding and fitness website. And they made it clear how against they were when such reputable sources such as MuscleMedia became fraudulent, false marketing phonies and crap supplement catalogs, betraying their original hardcore viewership. And what did they do in the last 15+ years since going online in 1998? They became what they scolded; virtually every other article features a plug for their supplements, their models are all heavy PED users, and they are even now selling advertising space on their site. Sadly, it’s just par for the course these days.

    Again, it’s important to read this and any other such sites with an open mind; don’t just look to be told what to believe, which is what many folks subconsciously do. None are 100% accurate and unbiased, and none are 100% lies, the truth is usually in the middle somewhere, if you’re objective enough to look for it and recognize it.

    1. The Joker

      T-nation had a lot of bullshit from day one. Charles Poliquin and others promoting the idea that micromanaging small details of training or nutrition will make a huge (or any) difference in results. They also used to sell myostatin inibitors, a huge scam.
      The only thing that was little more honest at that time is that they had an author (i don’t remember the name) that gave weekly drug advice.
      There are still some authors that i enjoy there like Nate Miyaki on nutrition and Chad Waterbury on training (altough the make a lot of hyped claims), but in general t-nation is bullshit and has always been.

  13. Mikelius

    The statement “6 eggs raises your testosterone” is the most dumbastic broclaim ever seen, let me tell you a secret “shaun”, nothing on earth besides steroids raises yor T levels, a good diet doesnt mess with your levels when you get older. Also somatotypes doesnt exist, they are the biggest shit born from a scamscience like psycology… there is just bones and muscles more aestheticaly pleasant

    1. Shaun

      And yet despite all of the attacks at me for stating my views, my experience, I still bench press 380 naturally. At 51.

      And you guys attacking me would all kill for that.

      1. LALA

        Hey whats your instagram. Put a video of your lifts bro/

  14. darksider

    I have been bodybuilding for about 12 years now. I would consider myself as ectomorph. I have been training natural for several years and I have also been training on juice for some years. I tried many different training regimes and followed strict bodybuilding diets for years. All I can say is this: If you are natural, never listen to the guys who are using steroids and are trying to tell you how to train, eat or whatever. All big muscle guys are on juice. Hell, in my opinion all championship sportsmen are using big amounts of juice. Passing a drug test? Just a matter of the right dosage and timing. Getting a standout physique doing bodybuilding as a natural? Haha never. Don’t listen to all those youtube fitness gurus.

    1. Zher0

      Ditto. And even if you’re on juice with bad genetics, you will never get too far!!

  15. Zher0

    There are some very useful comments, and now we can get updates to them, maybe (maybe not) would be great to upload a face to the names.

  16. pedro

    exelent! number 6 was the one i believed for the longest time, i used to think there was “something else” out there waiting for me to be discovered to finally trigger that hypertrophy i was looking for, the formless bulked guys of the gym were a reference to me, but you know, time, experience and seeking for answers always leads you to the truth eventually

  17. Moriel

    Nattyornot is the red pill world deserves, but not the one it needs right now.

  18. someguy

    To me the biggest key info on building and maintaining muscle was the influence of testosterone/androgens in the body. I used to think every physique was possible, I had posters of bodybuilders in my room (just train and eat more).
    Studies show that healthy men who don’t lift, grow 8 kilograms (about 17 pounds) of muscle in 2-3 months on a moderate dose of test.
    Even maintaining ripped and big physiques is impossible without high levels of androgens injected regularly.
    Compared to older guys, in a way, teenage boys are on natural roids (super high growth hormone and high test).
    I have good genes for physique building but my body heals slower and becomes fatter now in my thirties compared to my teens when people thought I was on roids ( I wasn’t).

    These articles are good for the readers and probably good to vent for the writer…

  19. Coach

    Can u post a link 2 ur pic doing dat?.in dis tyms anybody can boast of feats eventhough dy r nt wat dey claim 2 b.doubt u r 51 bcause pple ur age dont waste tym arguing wit many dy can giv birth 2 unless dat guy is wat we call bl**dy old f**l!.u r accusing guys of being fanboys,u dat is busy arguing n defending d other persons den wat r u.atleast truthseeker has spent his tym inspiring odas.wat about u?.hes not perfect n so r u.

    1. Shaun

      Can you repeat than in english?

  20. Brett

    Shaun look dude. All you have done is said that we are a bunch of skinny guys following a skinny guy. You hate on every article and provide nothing beneficial in terms of discussion. Then you always feel the need to procaim to everyone your achievements. Are you not getting any attention in the real world that you have to go online and brag about your numbers, as if we are supposed to car. We doint even know what u look like, so why would we car if a person by the name of Shaun is a descent bencher. Also the fact that you had to proclaim your arm measurements in your response to one of the previous articles (that wasnt even about arms, or anything in nature) shows a little insecurity, especially since no one here asked you what they were. Your 51 dude. Im sure you have worked hard in the gym, doint make the mistake of thinking you are the only person who has. Calling people cult followers who just moan about their shitty genetics shows that you doint understand what the real mindset is here. I actually do not care about numbers anymore (1RM), i doint obsess over weight gains and measurements like i used to, and i doint give a shit about mainstream ideology. Im just doing my own thing and am making my own progress. By the way, a one rep max has been proven to add no visible muscle mass gains, its just an ego lift that only makes your tendons and ligaments stronger, with little change to your actual muscles. (I didnt intend this comment to be rude, so take it how u wish)

    1. Shaun

      I say one more thing in reply to this and then no more. All I am saying is that every single person on here has far more genetic potential than any of you realise. And if you allow yourself to be limited by mindset, then that is your choice.

    1. Zher0

      @Esteban – I’ve tried high volume, high reps an all that bullshit. It doesn’t work unless you’re drug fed or have the genetics of a bull.
      Try for yourself and keep us informed!!

      1. Esteban Malsana

        Zher0 – Maybe you ‘re right. High volume…low volume; it doesn’t really matter. Nothing is written in stone. I don’t think you should have bull genetics or use drugs in order for the High-Volume routines to work. Any individual is different. That’s why trainees should experiment and see what works for them. For you, it doesn’t. That’s ok.

        1. jim

          ok…so if high volume/lower volume makes ZERO differnce etc….why do people say lifting 1rm has no effect on muscle size?

          I lift 1, maybe 2 reps,,,90-95%… i see muscle growth. Please explain the science of why 1rm lifting does not promote muscle gain?
          If 1 rep does not but 3+ reps does…why does doing 10 reps not promote? Explain this to me?

          It’s a little bit of inconsistency don’t you think?

          If you can shoulder pres over 80kg at 77kg body weight….you saying this does nothing?

  21. PSacramento

    I am not sure if this has been posted on this site before, but this study proved how steroids effective.
    How some gain lean muscle and strength by steroids alone, without exercise, comparably to those that train without steroids.

    The Study

    This 10 week study took a group of 43 men of normal body weight between the ages of 19 and 40 who all had some degree of weight training experience. These men were then split up into 4 different groups:

    Group 1 did NOT do any form of exercise, and did NOT receive any form of steroids or drugs. (Natural guys doing no weight training.)
    Group 2 did NOT do any form of exercise, but they received weekly injections of 600 mg of testosterone enanthate. (Drug users doing no weight training.)
    Group 3 DID exercise, but they did NOT receive any form of steroids or drugs. (Natural guys doing weight training.)
    Group 4 DID exercise, and they also received weekly injections of 600 mg of testosterone enanthate. (Drug users doing weight training.)
    All of their diets (calorie intake, protein intake, nutrient intake, etc.) were standardized according to each person’s body weight, recorded, verified and adjusted when needed. The 2 groups who WERE weight training (groups 3 and 4) followed the same supervised workouts each week.

    Meaning, with the exception of the fact that some groups were or were not weight training, and some were or were not using drugs… everything else (diet and training) was equal and even.

    The Results

    So… guess what happened?

    Group 1 (no exercise, natural) experienced no significant changes. No surprise there.
    Group 2 (no exercise, drug use) was able to build about 7 pounds of muscle. That’s not a typo. The group receiving testosterone injections and NOT working out at all gained 7 pounds of muscle.
    Group 3 (exercise, natural) was able to build about 4 pounds of muscle.
    Group 4 (exercise, drug use) was able to build about 13 pounds of muscle.
    So What Does This Study Show Us?

    Well, for starters, if you are natural and not doing any form of weight training, your muscle building results will suck. But we all knew that already.

    Second, the muscle building effects of steroids are pretty F-ing significant. Despite using identical workout routines and diets, the guys who were also receiving testosterone injections gained over 3 TIMES as much muscle as the natural guys in the same period of time. The average difference was 13lbs gained to just 4lbs gained.

    And third… here’s the most insane part of all. The group getting the testosterone injections and NOT doing any form of weight training whatsoever still gained significantly more muscle than the natural guys who WERE weight training. The difference was 7lbs gained to 4lbs gained.

    Let me repeat that again just in case it didn’t sink in. Guys using drugs and doing NOTHING built more muscle than the natural guys who were weight training 3 times per week. How crazy is that?

    1. Zher0

      @PSacramento: ThankZ, very good info and.. yeah it sucks!!

    2. Gigs

      I often hear that argument and natty guys always talk about that famous study. But as someone who knows a thing or two about drugs I can only tell you that it’s bullshit. I mean, take test, sit on your ass for 10 weeks and you will gain 7lbs/3kg of muscles? Yeah, right… How about you talk with people who actually use gear? Those guys probably had water retention, but scientists fucked up their measuring. You know, there is a difference between fat free mass gains which includes water and actual muscle gains. But you are free to believe whatever you want…

      1. Davikia

        SMH. Yes, that study has some flaws, but only because they claim that experienced natty lifters gained 4 lbs of muscle, lol. That won’t happen, ever after being experienced (3+ years).
        But I definitely believe that you can gain more muscle on just test and not doing fuck all than training natty and being experienced.
        Just compare women who practice sports with guys who are sedentary. Men have more muscle regardless of training and that’s because men have about 20 times as much test as women on average.
        Comparing a guy on 600 mg of test to a natty is almost like comparing a woman to a man.
        Hope this helps.

        1. Gigs

          I wouldn’t say women have lower muscle mass only because of lower testosterone levels, there are many other things, test is just one factor. I will say this: test gives you greater potential for more muscle mass and hypertrophy. But, whatever… As I said you are all free to believe whatever you want. Take test for 10 weeks, don’t train and then call me back and tell me how much muscle you gained. 🙂

      2. PSacramento

        Did you read the WHOLE study ?
        This is not the only one that had similar result, though it is the only one that has been published to the public at this time.
        3 Other studies have confirmed these results to one degree or another.

    3. Esteban

      PSacramento..These experiments are known from the era of East Germany.

    4. Fatman

      Or, you could take the positive approach and draw the conclusion that “naturals who train will gain 4 lbs. of muscle in 10 weeks more than naturals who don’t train”. I.e. leave the steroid whining aside and focus on the physique improvements possible with training.

      Just a thought.

  22. Esteban Malsana

    No need to feel inadequate if you lift light/moderate weights. A new study finds that lifting light/moderate weights is as effective as weight lifting many kilos, in order to build muscle.
    “The key is to do more reps so your muscles to be highly stressed as they would with heavier weights”, the researchers say.
    The researcher Stuart Phillips, a professor of kinesiology at McMaster University in Ontario, Canada, has said “Fatigue is the great equalizer. Lift until exhausted and no matter whether the weight is light or heavy.”
    The study involved 49 experienced weightlifters who were divided into 2 groups. The 1st group lifted lighter weights (between 30% – 50% of the maximum weight that could each individual lift) for 20-25 repetitions per set (each set repeated 3 times). The other group was lifting heavier weights (between 75% – 90% of the maximum weight that could each individual lift) for 8-12 repetitions per set. This strength training took place 4 days a week, for 12 weeks.
    At the end of the study, participants gave samples of muscle and passed through the body scanner, for researchers to be able to look for changes in the size of muscle fibers and muscle mass.
    Results: The 2 groups showed similar improvements in the amount of muscle mass and the size of their muscle fibers. The groups also showed similar improvements in muscle strength tests .–

  23. Esteban Malsana

    The selection and execution of exercises is much more important than the range of repetitions. Even if the “ideal rep range” is written in stone, it would be wrong to “correct” those who prefer something different from that, for reasons of personal preference. In other words, some people like very heavy loads while others like moderate and more repetitions. This will not change and no need to change. If someone doesn’t take pleasure training with moderate loads the same as lifting heavy loads then he better does what he likes. The most important ingredient is still the EFFORT.
    – The survey conducted by Norwegian scientists examined the effect of repetitions to increase the maximum power. The groups compared consisted of 8 men – 24 women & 7 men – 23 women. The comparison was between 6 and 12 reps and the study lasted for 8 weeks. The exercises studied were the Squat and Bench Press. In Squat there was a tie in the effectiveness and in the Bench Press little difference for the few repetitions protocol, although this was not statistically significant.
    The main problem in the research is the small sample male population and the relatively short duration. Nevertheless the chapter “strength and repetitions” is quite open to debate and little has been written in stone on the subject. The American College of Sports Medicine suggests protocols with few repetitions to increase strength but some scientists like Ralph Carpinelli have strongly questioned and more than once, these guidelines, arguing that effort counts in recruiting all muscle fibers and that there is NOT solid proof of the superiority of few repetitions in strength development.

  24. Truth seeker

    Agree but 50/50
    Sone people do roids still look shit, it’s still in the training. High intensity workout

    1. jim

      i have never seen a wimp dead lift over 200kg.

  25. marlon

    The truth hurts.
    Muscle growth: 80% genetic; 20% training/food.
    Not happy; take drugs.
    Why is this so hard to believe?
    There is no magic in any other part of life.
    You’re either born with it, work for it or cheat for it.
    I wouldn’t call drug use cheating if one is honest about it, and I don’t blame professional athletes for using.

    The YouTube gurus with their ridiculous routines who lie about being natty – them I can’t stand.

    The genetically gifted who believe everyone can do as well as they do “only if they tried harder” are another set of fools with their heads up their asses, admiring themselves, and getting their rocks off looking down on others.

    Plus there is no magic routine. No special set of exercises or routine. There isn’t even a holy exercise. (Maybe deadlifts).

    Believe it or not!
    Squats don’t make everyone grow big thighs. Maybe sprints up a steep hill will work better for you.

    Believe it or not!
    Incline bench press, weighted pull-ups or weighted push-ups may work better for you than bench press!

    Find a routine or routine that works for you, and work. That’s it.
    Get bored! Take up a sport/activity, and change your routine.
    Want to look 3D?
    Tren hard, test yourself anavar give up.

    1. Zher0

      Could not agree with you more !! (Y)

  26. marlon

    “There are people who do roids but don’t get the look.”

    My response? Of course they can get the look.
    Do the same thing the pros do who don’t respond as well as their competitors – take more drugs, and experiment till you find the right mix.

    Sometimes we forget that there are pros that don’t respond as their fellow competitors, and thus they drop out, or stay in the competitive mix, with more drugs, and choosing the cocktail that gives them the results they desire.

  27. Brett

    Train, recover, train again, recover…thats how it works. Insecurity makes people go back to the gym to train a muscle group when it has not yet fully recovered. They think their muscles are getting smaller if they doint go back and re ‘activate’ their muscles. I used to be one of those people. Now I train each muscle once every six days. Im making good progress. My arms have finally improved after almost three years of no growth. Half a cm, but thats fine with me. Your muscles need way more than 48 hours to recover. Trust me. Doint try and rush, you will only slow things down, down, down, eventually to a halt. I havent changed my program for a long time, and i see no reason to. I do three lifts per training session (a total of twelve lifts) and four workouts. 2 days on, 1 day off, 2 days on, 1 day off. I do the same amount of reps and sets as the last workout. When I feel that I am stronger and can lift more, then I add more weight. Perhaps just a kg. This is how naturals grow. Doint change your exercises frequently. Muscle confusion is a fast track to nowhere…its bullshit. Pick them and stick with them. I learnt the hard way. Pumps doint mean shit. Keep your rep range between 5 and 12 reps. No need to go higher or lower. Genetics are key. Doint beat yourself up over it. If you have bad genetics for calves then the best thing you can do is the farmers walk. No promises. But it will develop all there is to develop. Train with these principles. They are unpopular. Thats how you know they work. Whats popular today is glamour and pump. Growth is slow. But it is definetly real. It will happen. But you must put the effort in. When i mean slow, i mean really slow. You definately wont see visible changes. I happens to slow for your eye to pick it up. You can take this advice or leave it. After eight years of lifting this is the conclusion of all my training and research. And yes, people will be able to see that you lift. Have a nice day.

    1. Esteban Malsana

      Brett i agree with you in all except the point referring to repetition range. I wonder, what will happen if you perform sets of 13-20 reps and some sets of 3-5 reps? The individual who keep his rep range strictly between 5-12 will get better results?

    2. jim

      Brett, couldn’t agree more. I used to train 4 days a week (<25 y/o far too often) but as i got older i dropped to 3,2 and now even 1 per week fully body work out. BUT my weigths lifted has gone up.

      Going to the gym and lifting whilst sore, not fully recovered is a waste of time. If you are not lifting heavier there's a reason for it.

      Once a week is more than enough IF you really put the work in (i mean total weight lifted) + it gives you more free time out of the gym (for me garage).

      People that lift weights every day…..fools.

    3. jim

      when i started DLing 3 1/2 years ago i started at 120kg….built it upto 200kg now…my goal is 250kg and rack pulls of 280kg+

      Shoulder press…i can’t even remember what i started at…think it was 50kg..now upto 80kg…goal is 90kg+

      Squat: Bugger for me…started at 100kg…upto 135kg (sometimes) goal is 150kg.

      Only started to hit the big numbers (for me) when i took 4+ days off between workouts. I am still aching 3 days after.

      When i hit my goals (hopefully 2017) that’s it…i’ll try and maintain till i die…\;-

      I am fairly old….but stil lget wolf whistles from young girls…how’s that for an ego boost?

      In your face steroid monkeys…you *** disgust me with you weak, overblown, bloated, useless muscle mass!

  28. Brett

    Esteban I personally find that the closer you go to your one rep max the less and less benefits you get in terms of muscle mass. Your tendons, joints and ligaments get strengthened more. Of course you can go for 13 to 20 reps. The problem is the higher you go the more you end up chasing the pump. Its best to pick a rep range, say for example 8 reps, then you perform the same reps each workout for the same weight, until you feel strong enough to add more weight. Doint chop and change your rep ranges frequently because this makes it very hard to improve and add weight, and you have no idea if you are progressing. Just pick a range for a lift and stick to it. Thats the take home message. This applies to lifts too. Bottom line, have a plan and stick to it.

  29. s.h


  30. Mike

    I have to say that after many years of training I also have ended following a similar pattern of training. If you are medium/advanced in the gym I think is the best routine. I have to mention small differences tough I follow an upper body part / lower body part split as I think is better than a weider routine. Also, instead of doing every set at 8 I usually start with heavier sets in which I do 5-6 reps and latter in the session I change to longer lighter sets of 10-12. I might do sessions of 8 on my second day tough or drop sets on my last set.

  31. Ric

    Training works if done correctly. Yet most of the ideas and things promoted now do not work well. If you take the time and experiment you will find the truth. You will never be a huge ass monster naturally, but given your own unique genetics will look far better and be far stronger than you are in an untrained state.
    Isolation training for weak links works wonders. That is a fact. You must determine how much you need by how your body responds. How many of you are willing to do training for a weak point up to 3 times a day almost every day, only resting when your body has had enough and doing it again? Insanity, perhaps? Dedication, Desire? Absolutely. If you want it so bad you must have it, you will do what it takes within reason. How many of you realize that compound movement work many muscles at the same time , yet non are really worked hard enough as there is not enough time under tension for a specific muscle due to the changing emphasis on different muscles that do the work… This can be improved dramatically by working the compound lifts in partial ranges… example: squat only in the small range right around 90 degrees, a very short movement, yet works the quads tremendously. Over head press only in the range from the top of the ears to slightly above the head. Try this….way better deltoid stimulation than the full overhead press. Of course you should train for strength as well, but we are talking hypertrophy here . Experiment with all kinds of isolation moves, develop your own. Example: I have a set up where I do lateral raises and at the top position (hint: top of the short range not top of a normal lateral) I am pressing the weight against a bar, iso holds . Incredible lateral delt stimulation.
    I am trying to convey there are things and ways the author of this site has never exerienced…. I am a super hard gainer …. very skinny, no athletic ability, yet I transformed myself dramatically with absolutely no drugs

    1. jim

      ric: you are describing “partials” and static hold right?

      It’s an excellent tool to use to really pack on exceptional weight to lift i do use them sometimes.

      For example the sqaut..it’s somethigni struggle with 135kg full ass to ground…sometimes but man it;s a struggle.

      Now if i do the partial you described…160kg+

      Rack pulls 250kg….full deadlift 200kg. BIG difference.

      It’s all about overlaoding the muscle. People that say you want get much growth from 1 rep max’s….how long have you actually tried 1 rep maxes? I think i have more muscle development or as much than people that do 7+ reps. (naturally of course)

      + for me…getting strong was my main focus. Relatively. I am too old to get to the olympics now or join the circus. But i admire the old time strongmen.

      The last time i went to a commercial gym…i had an audience doing my static holds….they have never seen so much weight lifted…i felt like i was in a show..:-)

  32. s.h

    hey Ric i ve done lots of isolation more than any body in the world yes it has some effects on parts of muscles but it is more like a pump when you abandon, they disappear in 1 week or two and it just does not deserve for the time you put on it.

  33. Rodney

    You may be the smartest man on the internet. I have been training for over 30 years and I can honestly say that I possess only slightly more muscle now than I had as a senior in HS. My life of frustration started when I watched the movie Pumping Iron as a 15 year-old and has continued until I found your site (ironically, I found your site while searching for high-frequency training routines because that had to be my problem, right?). Please keep up the good work. I am positive that the information you provide is helping many more people like me cope with the realities of strength training. Which is to say that no matter how hard you train or how much BCAAs or protein powder you consume, you will never, EVER look the way you want to or look the way you were promised by the industry.

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      Thank you!

  34. Mike

    After watching so many posts here (mine included). I am tempted to say: “Dude!! Take the fucking drugs and leave the complaints behind”. Ranting of the day :P. You know what they say: “Better to have loved and lost than to never have loved….”

    1. s.h

      dont make a mistake dude,one of my friends destroyed his sex drive with just a low dose of dianabol,no body knows how our bodies react to steroids. imo being healthy is worthy than any thing else.

  35. Dave

    Very true in my experience.

    I wish I had known this and set more realistic goals. Being slim and slightly muscular is all I can ever get, but I chased the body of youtube guys and it only gave me joint pains and made me fat at some point (Starting Strength)

  36. FatManEvo

    What the hell is it with the instagram bodybuilders? They are awfully shredded! I wonder what they eat and what exercises they perform to get that like that!

    1. Davikia

      Aside from the obvious, filters, lighting and photoshop help a lot.
      I think this can be quite dangerous if you compare yourself to a heavily manipulated picture of a guy on lots of gear. It’s a good way to destroy your self esteem.

  37. Álvaro

    Hi man, I have a question hovering around in my mind, what do you think of vitruvian physique?

    1. Davikia

      Not natty imo, but it’s not like he’s using a ton of gear.
      He definitely looks bigger than the average person who is 6’0″, 170-175 and shredded, which never happens for true natties.
      If you wanna see a true natural with average genetics (me), check this out:

  38. Mike88

    Great physicue Davikia! How does your routine looks like and how long you have been training? I am curious because I have similar structure as you but I have been training only 6 months for now. Do you happen to know your body fat percentage? Would be glad to hear your answer.

    1. Davikia

      @ Mike88: Thanks man. Right now I’m training 3-4 times a week and I do Legs, Push, pull.
      I keep my training pretty simple. For legs I do 2 main basic exercises (Romanian deadlifts and leg press mostly), which I vary from time to time (with either, front squats, back squats, hack squats or leg press with a different angle) and then I do a few sets of leg extensions, leg curls and calves.
      For push day, I mostly focus on weighted dips, overhead press and decline bench press. For pull day, my main exercises are weighted chin ups, some row variation, shrugs and a few sets of bicep curls.

      I’ve been training consistently for 3.5+ years, but before that I had a decent base from playing sports, going to the gym through some periods and I also did pull ups and dips throughout my teen years.

      I’d say since I started training consistently I’ve gained about 10-15 lbs of real muscle. I’ve gone through periods of being very serious with my training and diet, but overall I haven’t stopped training for the past 3.5 years. My wildest gains occured in my first 6 months of consistent training and bulking, lol. After the first year I don’t think I have gained muscle, or it’s not noticeable at all.

      I don’t know what my body fat % was in those videos, but if I had to give a range, I’d say 10-12 %. Right now I’m about 12 lbs heavier than that, but it’s all fat and water. I start getting defined once I go below 165 lbs and that’s when every pound lost makes a difference. I’d like to cut down to 150 lbs and see how I look. Below that, I’d look freaky shredded, but probably closer to an anorexic.
      Hope this helps!

  39. Johnnie

    Make a post about SARMS and Peptides

  40. Dan

    Oi dickheads go do some work like real men. Blokes 300 years ago didn’t worry about all this rubbish.

    1. The Joker

      So, are you saying that men 300 years ago didn’t discuss steroid use in the internet??

      1. iROC

        No they talked about eating Ox and Horse testicles for them testosterone.

  41. iROC

    Truth Seeker please come out with another post…

  42. alfie

    the ranting of a skinny man why doesn’t truthseeker post some pictures of himself if he been training so long and doing everything right he must be in decent shape not some skinny guy who has never had the determination to follow a diet and gym plan properly there is so much wrong on this site over a 6 year cycle of real training your body should be at its max steroids will get you there faster and let you get past it but there are limits but natty you can get the body of some who has taken courses of steroids ive seen people take steroids and not look better than me and people who have never taken any who i’m 2 years behind some people are hopelessly skinny but hey i’m 5’9 and from 17 to 23 I went from 55 kg to 80 kg back to 65kg and now I’m around 82kg for about 10 percent fat mabey a bit less I now cut carbs from my diet a bit to not get to big and start getting leaner so do not listen to this guy you wanna learn about this go on youtube cheak out athleanx i’m not saying buy a plan I wouldent but jeff is one of the most knowlegable men on this subject so go listen to him not this guy you will see a difference by the way if the owner of this site wants to contact me go ahead because you should not be misleading all these people in the way that you do

    1. Zher0

      You may be right dude. But who tells me that you’re not that “athleanx” guru you’re talking about. Who if you visit, tries to sell you some sort of wisdom on training and so on.
      At least, “Truthseeker” is not selling any method or garbagge on this site.
      For me that’s more than enough!


      1. Dom

        Jeff (AthleanX) is one of the most knowledgeable me on this!? Don’t make me laugh. He talks a good talk but his form is often terrible. For example his hanging leg raises and dragon flags and dive type press ups. I’m 50 and been training in circus acrobatics for about 5 years. Previously I did a bit of martial arts and rock climbing but never did gymnastics or straight arm stuff before. I go to a gym and use the matted areas to stretch and do bodyweight exercises. I see many juiced people in the gym with the worst form and making huge muscle gains. I know people who follow AthlenX and, on the surface, he looks like he knows what he is talking about. Just because someone has studied a subject academically does not mean they know a great deal outside what they have read. I worked in IT for most of my life and many computer science graduates we took on did not fully understand binary or tcp/ip or how computers worked…I’m slim, always had some kind of a 6 pack (well, since I was about 15, I think) and frequented weight training gyms now and again. I guess I have single digit fat but really I have no idea. A year ago I started clean and jerks – but not olympic form, in order to make it easier for me to do hand to hand acrobatics – where someone will handstand on my hands. I’m 70 kg and I got to lifting 90 kg – that was my maximum aim, so lifting my own weight (70kg) would be relatively easy. When I started, basing a 70kg person was possible for me but very difficult. I’m about 176.5cm and didn’t put on much weight, although my strength and endurance increased. I eat ‘normal’ foods and don’t take any supplements. I could never, ever, see my body getting heavier than 80 kg without taking something. Over the years my weight has fluctuated between about 65 kg and 75 kg. The author of this website speaks a lot of truth and I’m not one who cares about getting bigger or smaller. I train mostly for function, as acrobatics is my hobby. I do mostly body weight exercises and have decent definition and strength. I can do free standing handstand press ups. I train with people half my age and that works for me. I have seen people take steroids and hardly do any training and they put on ridiculous amounts of muscle in a short time. What steroids? I have no idea as there are so many now and they mix them with other supplements in order to get a certain look. Anyway I do not think AthleanX is so great. Some of his stuff is OK but it is not at all gospel and I would take a lot of what he does and says with a pinch of salt. This website, whether or not author is bitter, has much truth and the fitness industry is full of lies and fakes and people that just don’t know but think they do. I know and have been going to gyms and been around the industry for 34 years and I have many friends who are personal trainers and they are open and honest with me. Since I was 16 I have tested many weight training / lifting systems on myself so I have a good idea of what works for me and my potential in the muscle building area. I have completed many nutrition and fitness, exercise and gym courses and much of what is taught is not very efficient or correct but is just accepted by most that study such courses and they they pass on this information to others. I know a few people that attend Mr Physique natural contests and they all take steroids. They have to in order to compete, they just don’t take as much or the same cocktails as the huge bodybuilders. These are personal trainers too and their clients think they know the secrets to training as they have such great physiques. At least these guys have decent form and perform the exercises properly and safely. In my humble opinion the fitness, nutrition and bodybuilding industries are all a scam.

        1. Truth Seeker Post author

          Thank you for taking the time to write this comment.

        2. alfie

          whatever you must have been training bad your whole life or have bad genetics i’m 174cm 80kg low body fat and could put more on if I chose to bulk not that I want to I train in total 4h30 a week and im in better shape than most jeff I listen to more for his content on nutrion and sleep pick up a few tips from him but for technique you should know and feel what works for you I will say that the reason i’m in better shape than most I train smart eat well sleep well and DONT DRINK ALCOHOL you want more testosterone give up alcohol if your drinking every weekend or everyday your levels can drop by up to 50 pourcent I do agree that the fitness, nutrition and bodybuilding industries are all a scam for 90 % some people tell you what is real but I mean if you are dumb enough to think cail muscle or the muscle cartel are real natty then wow but lots of guys who don’t use steroids are in better shape than those who do a real high level natty will be in beter shape 95% of the time and by better I don’t mean bigger im 80kg for 5’9 but can do 20+ pull ups (with proper technique) take those big overinflated guys they do 10 if there lucky if you wanna look like a monster you need roids if you want look like a ufc fighter you can natty look at tyron Woodley in the ufc I don’t think he needs steroids to maintain or get that level 77kg for 175 cm and that’s fight weight so he must walk around at 80 kg plus

        3. Zombie

          I agree. Fitness industry is a trap. You wanna be cool, so you follow some people, who looks cool, but even if you train hard, you looks like shit. Then you start taking some roids, muscle grow, and nothing ever changes. Maybe you think fit body makes your life perfect, but no, that’s not enough. Personality stays the same. There are so many girls and boys outthere with fantastic body, but when they start to speak it turns out there’s nothing inside.
          That Jeff guy from Athlene x talks like an idiot. I mean he knows this body building staff, but the way as he speaks is not normal at all. Shouts like a brainwashed, to wash some brain. Be a member of my team…
          Just think of that: Why do people wanna be strong instead of smart or skillful? Building a body needs a lot of energy. If you put it into learning you profit more…

  43. Finfrosk

    Uhm, do you have any sources for all this? Kind of seems like these are just your opinions?
    I like this page and all, been here several times, but I get the impression that you are just unhappy with your own muscle growth, and think it applies to everyone. It’s not THAT hard to grow muscle. Takes time, sure, but it is possible.

      1. Dom

        I’m very happy with my strength and muscle growth. I don’t even understand why so many people want to be big and strive to get bigger. I eat ‘well’ but have a sweet tooth too. I know do something right as I don’t need to train too much but frequently get compliments on my physique, from circus and gym people. I say I’m just lucky but the response is usually, “No, you just work hard or smart”. What type of sources are you looking for Finfrosk? I know for for many exercises from my circus acrobatic training and empirical research. When your livelihood depends on performing acrobatic feats you need to train safely and efficiently. My livelihood never depended on this but most people I train with perform for a living. I just looked at another AthleanX video where he is on dip bars / parallel bars and raising his hips. He hardly raises them at all and exclaims that he raises them high. We do this exercise (starting point for press to handstand with straight legs) and our hips must be completely above our shoulders and feet as high as our hands, with straight legs. Yes, much of this is my opinion, gained from years of trial and error on myself and others.

  44. alfie

    i’m not the athleanx guru or I wouldent say just watch his videos don’t buy his plan i’m just saying if your gunna waste your time with the nonsence on here at least go and listen to someone with 20 years plus experience who trains mbl teams and is a phsyio it will help youna lot more Truthseeker is selling his book and trying to make money from amounts of view but all hes does is lie he noes nothing about training if he had spent the time training eating and sleeping and not bitching on here he would be in better shape he trys to say its all lies you won’t look good without roids its a lie

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      I’ve trained harder than most people could imagine. Thanks for the support.

      1. alfie

        yes well mabey you over trained I train 4 days a week never spend more than 80 minutes in the gym and i’m getting better results than ever when you are natty you can not train 6 days a week you can not train 2 hours a day its not possible, im telling you now if you spend more than 90 minutes at the gym your not training hard unless your on roids and besides you can train all you want and I could still stay in better shape without even going to the gym,your diet and sleep is so much more important eat nothing but tuna steak chicken and proteins shakes and sleep 8 hours a night you will a difference a big one aswell as the 4 on 3 off a weeks spaced out as you please then train with proper technique give it 12 to 18 months there will be a big difference and no achool if you drink achool you will not gain as much muscle or be as strong

        1. Dom

          I may spend 4 hours or more in gym but half of that time would be stretching and resting. I used to do say 50 somersaults in an hour but now I will do maybe 15 – 20 but concentrate more on each one and rest between each one and that goes for all the exercises I do now. So, I spend time in the gym but maybe do the same physical work as someone who spends an hour or so there working out non-stop but each ‘rep’ to me is as important and perfect as the last. I may over train; training 8 hour’s a day for a few weeks but after I will take a rest for a week or two where I do nothing. This is how it works in the acrobatics world. We also sometimes train to maintain and train to improve as no performers settle where they are; the are continually improving their strength, flexibility and skills. I’m not a performer but train with them and we all mostly have 6/8 packs, although none are as old as me (50). I used to train non-stop and complete workout in a relatively short time but now I train for longer periods of time, still with the same intensity, but with longer and more frequent rests. This allows me to concentrate more during each exercise and movement. Circus friends train everyday when not performing and sometimes train for 16 hours’ a day. They are slim, eat what they want and have great physiques, strength and flexibility. Eat nothing but tuna steak, chicken and protein shakes!? That is not healthy, nice or sustainable, in my humble opinion. Some friends take extra protein but this doesn’t seem to have much of an effect, although they say it helps their recovery. I get more than enough protein from the food I eat I think. Anyway if you enjoy what you do and then carry on. If you want gains that you are not getting then change what you are doing. If you want to look like a bodybuilder, then do what a bodybuilder does. Problem is for people to know exactly what a bodybuilder really does and what they really consume.

  45. alfie

    training hard means nothing if done wrong today is chest day for me sure I could 12 sets flat 12 sets incline and end with a decline and flys super set that would be really hard but pointless ill do 4 flat 4 incline 2 decline 4 flys and that hard enough any more would be counter productive takes about 40 mins then ill do 12 tricept sets and im gone will take 70 min max I could stay in the gym 140 min and do double that it would make you weaker not stronger you need to stimulate muscle not destroy it when your natty you don’t have the powers of recovery you do on roids and im 24 so I recover well but anyone who trains 6 days a week 2 hours a day is on roids or wasting their time don’t train hard train smart

    1. iROC

      Something doesnt add up here. 12 sets for flat and another 12 for incline? Sounds like the weight is super light… If not please record yourself and show us how your able to do that much high volume work under two hours. I have respect for Physical Therapist as I have a degree in Pre-PT but some of athleanx is super gimmicky…

  46. McF7y

    Hi truth seeker, just wondering when your next article will be? It’s been a month plus. Looking forward to more insight.

  47. Ronnie aka Coleman

    What do you mean with this article. It seems like your really frustrated on guys taking drugs… How big do you want to be yourself? Do you wanna look like Ronnie Coleman? What you can achieve naturally is way more attractive. Forget about watery looking muscles. I miss the old nattyornot bro…. Where you at? Please come back to us and write a review on mike matthews.

    1. Zher0

      LOLL I guess he’s already happy the way he looks. I think he’s just trying to speak the truth to the dork noobies that believe in coleman’s fairytales.

  48. Tim Ely

    I find it very disheartening that someone is able to fly in the face of all knowledge of human physiology. I have many friends who are physiotherapists and the common consensus is that it is a fact that muscle will get stronger and then bigger if subjected to overload. If you get to that point, you then put a “matchstick on the weight” and do it again.

    Looking at the hater’s training strategy, he’s far too impatient. When selecting an exercise, you need to give it 6 months – measuring the body part once a week. If you have even a 1/16th inch growth, its growth. If you don’t, chuck the exercise. As Stuart McRobert says, finding a successful programme takes years.

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      Lol Seriously? By this logic I will need 8 years to gain an inch. This is madness to be honest.

      1. Tim Ely

        I think you have misread my comment. I did not say that you will only grow 1/16 inch in six months! What I am saying is that for some people hypertrophy takes a very long time.

  49. Álvaro

    Missing your articles bro 🙁

  50. FatManEvo

    Where the hell has Truth Seeker gone? its been forever since an article was published.

    1. Dick

      He’s moved forward. There’s a time for that and I think that it’s better to leave behind the wired for a while at least. I’m going to take cover from the upcoming trump shitstorm.

  51. sLayeR

    Hey seeker of the truth, what happened with your task?

  52. s.h

    hi truthseeker ,can you give me some guidelines for writing a powerlifting routine bro? i read your bb routines that is ok but what is the optimal frequncy,rep,… for absolute power? thank you man.

  53. Parry Hotter

    “When one teaches, two learn.”
    -Robert Heinlein’s
    mising your articles man,come back…

  54. Anson Gama

    Hello Truth Seeker,

    I believe 99% of what you have written so far. I have been training for the last 52 years and by January 2018, I want to come out with a website and a book to help people understand this dark den of lies called Bodybuilding. I am a family physician and there are a lot of unknowns before I dive into the fitness bandwagon. I would appreciate if you can send me your personal email so that I could seek direct advice from you. I promise my website will carry a link to your site as and when it is set up. Will you help me please? Thanks in advance.
    Dr. Anson Gama

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      I am here.

  55. Guy Bertrand

    I’m not sure it this will help anyone here, but I got about an inch gain in my calves and a lot more vascularity from road marching. No my calves did not continue to grow to amazing proportions, but they went from borderline chicken calves to noticeably more aesthetically pleasing. I warn you though road marching with a weighted vest is hard work and time consuming, but the results are that I’m lighter on my feet and it carries over to sprinting and jumping for some reason. Hope this helps…truthseeker please call me out if I am mistaken, I’m open to any criticisms.

  56. Martin

    Brilliant site. Been spending hours reading through this huge amount of information. Here in Germany it´s not any better then in other countries. A few claim that only they hold the key to success.
    They almost succeeded in brainwashing me too. I started to question their methods after a few month into really hard training. My body did grow a bit and it felt great, but then guess what? Progress suddenly stopped. Working out even more did not help.
    Found the truth behind the scenes here. Saved me a lot of tears and trouble and thus will give all my friends into body building the advice to check this out.

    Kind regards,


    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      Thank you for the support, Martin.

      Good luck

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