Is Approaching Women Immoral? (philosophical article)

| by Truth Seeker |

source: https://pixabay.com/photos/tree-sunset-amazing-beautiful-736885/

As you already know, I used to approach women. The process left me emotionally scarred.

As expected, the pain was the greatest “the day after the fall”.

I shared my suffering with others in expectation of understanding, but I never got it. In fact, the opposite happened. I was ridiculed, criticized, and turned into a villain. I got banned on a handful of online places due to my “misogynistic tendencies.”

I was told that what I was doing was immoral and a scam.

The accusations were false, and I can explain why in a very simple manner.

What is approaching women?

If you ask the professional pick-up artists, they will tell you that this is the manliest and most alpha conquest that you can begin.

If you ask feminists, they will tell you that approach is harassment and a modern display of misogyny (hatred towards women) based on objectification.

If you ask your grandparents, they will look at you as if you’ve forgotten to take your pills.

I will use a more neutral definition:

Approaching is simply the act of presenting yourself to a woman with the idea of eventually going on a romantic date with her. The woman can be a stranger or someone that you already know.

That’s it.


Is Approaching Women Immoral?

In general, approaching women is neither good nor bad by itself. It’s your intent and behavior that could render it immoral.

A while back, I read a forum comment written by a man who was allegedly borrowing BMWs and then presenting himself as a music industry magnate with one goal in mind – to sleep with his dates and then bounce.

His rationalization was simple. If women sleep with him on the first date solely because he is flashing money at them, they are unofficial prostitutes and deserve what they get.

Obviously, similar strategies are immoral and will rarely if ever give the beginning to something meaningful.

Why? Because it’s all based on deception.

However, the approach/interaction isn’t immoral. The lies that people fill it with are.

If you approach women while being as honest as possible but not more than necessary, I don’t think that approaching is immoral.

After all, you’re simply presenting yourself to a woman and communicating with her.

Since when is this a crime?


Have I lied during an approach? Honestly, I can’t recall saying a lie. I’m not saying that I haven’t lied. I just don’t remember.

What I do no know with great certainty, however, is that I never presented myself as someone I’m not.


The next important part is the intent.

If you approach women with the intent to play them, then your objective would color the act of approaching immoral.

A while back, a woman that I know met someone online. She started chatting with him…things were going great…they went on a date….etc.

Eventually, she saw him with a baby stroller and another woman in the city center. The baby is his.

A situation like this could wrongfully lead someone to the conclusion that online communication is immoral. It isn’t. People are.


Roosh V and Approaching

Most of you are familiar with Roosh V. I wasn’t following the guy during his “game prime”, but I read articles from him later on. I know that now he is a Christian and criticizes “game”.

In one of his newest articles, he states that God protects good women from game. Or in other words, if you are the BMW guy from the example above, God will hide all “non-corrupted” women from you because you’re trash.

Is this really true?

Yes and no.

First, if a woman is truly super-virtuous, the chances that she will fall for a “fake game guy” who just wants to sleep with her are smaller because she knows better.

However, this is a one-dimensional conclusion.

One could also make the argument, that God may allow the “fake game guy” to reach those women to test their faith and value system.

One could also argue that if God protects women from “immoral game”, then God would also help men who run “moral game” meet “good women”.

Or in other words, God will push the good women towards a man who has honest game.

My experience doesn’t match this reasoning.  My goal has always been to find a good woman and love her. I’ve always been me during my approaches and dates. The women that responded to my honest game were the same corrupted souls that my honesty was supposed to push away.

Why didn’t God hide the corrupt women from me and give me the good ones?

The answer is somewhat complex:

1. Life teaches you through suffering. 

For better or worse, a man improves through pain. All those nasty experiences create a stimulus (just like training) which then elicits an immune system response that builds you up.

Of course, the weight has to be within your limits. If it’s too heavy, it will just break you.

So far, I’ve been able to recover. I look back at those events and feel as if they’d happened in another life. That’s a sign that a time-based scar has formed.

Having said that, I still have to deal with the problems I had prior to beginning the search. But now I have PTSD too.

(I realize that this paragraph opens a long theme, but I can’t cover it in this post without going off-topic too much.)

2. The Environment

Honestly, I don’t think that Roosh V has failed to find a good woman because he was an “evil game guy.”

I haven’t read all his articles, and I probably won’t agree with him on all points, but in the ones that I’ve read, he is disarmingly honest. I seriously doubt he was the predator that his critics paint him as.

I also don’t think that his lack of faith was the reason for not finding that precious woman.

Why?

Because you don’t have to be a believer to meet the one, get married, have sex and procreate.

How do I know that?

I just look around. People who are far away from God than Roosh V has ever been have families.

All kinds of dirtbags get to experience female attention and procreate despite being sinful as hell. 

What does this fact tell you?

That you don’t have to be a pure believer (in any religion) to “get girls”.

In my humble opinion, the main reason why Roosh V hasn’t succeeded was fate + the environment.

We live in a word that isn’t conducive to strong, healthy relationships.

The world/society isn’t raising people in the way needed for a healthy union to form and thrive.

Consequently, the family unit has been degraded and destroyed.

3. Correlation or causation?

A while back I listened to a podcast of a recently converted Christian. The man said something that stood with me.

Upon embracing the faith, he started meeting men who have amazing families (great wives and many children). Prior to his conversion, he’d been convinced that this was a rarity.

This could lead someone to the conclusion that religion always results in a miracle of this magnitude.

But could this really happen? Are those happy families the direct product of faith?

I can’t tell with 100% certainty, obviously.

What do I know, however, is that there are plenty of men who are very devoted believers, and yet they don’t get the same rewards.

To me, the explanation of this phenomenon is simpler, and I will use the world of sports to illustrate it.

As you know, many basketball players are quite tall. In fact, they’re taller than 99% of the population.

Are they tall because they play basketball? No. They play basketball because they’re tall.

The same principle may apply in this situation. People who’ve had the luck to build such wonderful families are likely to have an interest in religion.

Can God Find Me/You a Girlfriend?

Yes, of course, He can. But the better question is – will He?

God has the capacity to do whatever he wants. However, before all, He wants you to find Him. And this result does not always necessitate a girlfriend.

One could even argue that a girlfriend would take you/me away from God because we would worship her instead of Him as most modern men do.

We live in a world where female attention has become the God of many men.

Most men unknowingly shape their existence in a way that serves women.

E.g., Why do men have social media? You can lie to yourself that “it’s just to chat with people” and stuff like that, but if women were to evaporate from social media men would follow before tomorrow morning.


Another very important question is – how will you find your girlfriend if you never create opportunities?

Even if this outcome is in God’s plans, you can’t expect Him to synthesize her for you and teleport her in your room. She has to be a person with a past and come out of somewhere.

It’s up to the seeker to create an opening. As they say – help yourself and God will help you.

Approaching is a legit way to orchestrate such a situation. I’m not saying that it’s the best way, but it’s a real one.


Why I No Longer Approach?

I quit not because I consider the activity immoral but because it has a very low success rate and takes too much out of me. I simply don’t like it nor can I recommend it given what happened to me.

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25 comments

  1. Lee

    Pay no mind to Roosh. He has swung from one extreme to the other, from a PUA to a religious nut. Look for him to ditch this religious fervor in the next couple years like most do.

    1. Good genetics killer

      What about just approaching women who give you choosing signals?

  2. Brett

    Its not easy to find a good wholesome woman in 2021.

    Even if you good looking.

    You may be able to attract her if you good looking but to make her stay past a year – she’s got to want it, that is – to be with you for the rest of her life.

    Otherwise its just going to be one fight after the next until one of you finally leaves after the first year.

    So the problem with this is most women want/desire upgrades, adventure and dopamine with different men – even if they don’t know it. They don’t want commitment when they youthful.

    By the time they do they normally post 30 and 50 sexual encounters/boyfriends later.

    Then you try to bond with them (the post 35 year old) and you ask yourself “damn why is this so difficult?”

    Well its because 50 other men have lain on top of her before you while looking into her eyes.

    Depressing I know.

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      Yes.

      The levels never end. First, you have to find her. Then, she has to agree to meet you. Then, she has to continue communicating with you after the date. Then, another date…etc.

      She can bail out at basically any point. And even if you secure a gf, she can still do it after 1,2,3,4,5,6 months.

      The game almost never ends. As she and you get old, however, I guess it slows down.

  3. Axshi

    Talk more about the false spiritual realm

    1. Momo

      Based article. You could have gone deeper in the discussion and refuted the whole “objectification” bs people keep going on about.

  4. Baron2Duke

    The most noteworthy thing I discovered about Roosh was while reading his books “Why can’t I put a smiley face on?” and “30 bangs”. Some of the stories were evidently indicating that he’s been an irreparable gamma male. To refresh the memory, the typical gamma attributes are, among other: Self-delusion, narcissistic grandeur (although with no or little actual real-world results), and pathological self-righteousness.

    Some of his bangs were obviously revenge of the morally-superior kind of living beings he’d been a part of, while in some other chapters it seemed that he intentionally jeopardised closing a girl that liked him ‘organically’ right from the start. He had obvious expectations of finding an unicorn that never materialised simply because his self-delusion prevented him to see the other side of ‘game’. And during these 20 years since he started his PUA trip he never truly evolved out of being a gamma. This could explain why he took such a diametral turn to religion and purity (self-righteousness + delusion, anyone?), meaning switching from one (in his own mind) grandiose pursuit to another.

    I would claim that quite some of the readers will find themselves in this comment. However, you need courage to change one radical pursuit in favour of another radical pursuit, which Roosh definitely had. Majority of gamma’s simply go along their primary fantasy world for their whole lives.

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      This could be true, of course, but at the end of the day, the environment and society matter the most.

      I can assure you that all kinds of “gamma”, “beta”, “omega”…etc. males were getting married in the past not because they were “properly calibrated”, but because the world was more conducive to that goal.

      They didn’t have to deal with online dating, a destroyed family unit, third wave feminism, PUA camps, social media…etc.

      You don’t have to be perfect, whatever that is, to not be alone.

      So even if Roosh suffers from delusional grandeur, it’s still doesn’t change the environment.

      If you constantly have to tweak yourself, then the system is rigged either as a whole or at the very least against your type.

      1. Erasus

        What I found is that it’s best to have a gf who don’t really know much about technology, believe it or not I used to know quite a few girls who didn’t even know how to register on facebook or any other social media type of website, and they were amazingly sweet, however, these days it’s so rare, basically at this point it’s a lottery. But really I see girls are getting smarter in a stupid way, they are looking for many options, knows a lot of stuff about fashion, trends and such, they act intelligent, some arrogant and that really helped me out to filter out those girls, I could almost see from their face what type of person they are, on the internet they get so insecure and with all kinds of complexes, and then they try to pass that insecurity to you, you really don’t need to look in church for woman, but it really doesn’t take that much, for me it takes a couple of conversations to find out what this girl is really about and what she wants in the end, I’m almost two years with my gf and still everything is going good, I consider myself lucky too but at least I know what I chose, maybe it will change, but for me it’s hard to understand the people who can’t see anything aside from a girl’s external beauty, it’s like that stuff blinds a lot of guys and they just run into the hottest girl but are unable to keep them because you know they are incompatible…

        1. Truth Seeker Post author

          You can find such woman only in the jungle.

  5. Claudio

    “Why didn’t God hide the corrupt women from me and give me the good ones?”

    I think the main problem relies on what your idea about God is. In other words: what is and who is God for you.

    It looks like you believe there’s a God and that he’s all powerful. Which is true. But to really believe in God is not only to believe in his existence. You must also believe in his word.

    Otherwisea, why do you believe God’s all powerful, all good, all justice etc in the first place? How do you know that? Who told you that?

    And what’s the use of believing there’s a God? Like, I believe you exist, and so what? Does that change anything? It doesn’t even make us friends.

    So, you get the idea. Now, in order to truly believe in God you got to believe in what the Bible says about him, about us and the condition we find ourselves in this world.

    The main theme of the Bible is the salvation that God offers us freely through his son Jesus Christ. Have you ever stopped to think about that? Like, Jesus Christ saves us from what?

    So, if you believe in God, would you believe him when he says we are all born into this world as sinners? Do you believe you are a sinner? Do you know that a person can sin not only in action, but also in thoughts and desires? Have you ever been jealous or envious of someone? How many times you’ve had unkind thoughts about some people?

    Now here’s the biggest question: do you live your life for the glory of God or for your own glory? What are the real motives behind the things you do? Isn’t that to impress people and cause them to admire you? But if everything you got were created by God, why do you wanna get people to admire you, instead of God? Is it even fair?

    Are you proud of your intelligence or talents? Do you like when people compliment your cleverness or how good you write? Have you created your brain and produced your own inteligence?

    So, in other words, the Bible says the truth about human nature, about our condition and about God’s plan of salvation for everyone who believes. And this is the real “believing in God”. It’s to believe in what he says through his son Jesus Christ.

    Because we’re all sinners, there’s a condemnation upon us all. It’s not something only for religious people, we’re all involved in it, whether we believe in God or not.

    But Jesus Christ came for saving us. Saving us from what? From the condemnation that came upon us because we’re sinners. All of us. Even the highest moral man in this world is a sinner. And a proof of that is that he’s full of pride for being so “good” and lives only for his own glory instead of Gods.

    So, you see, your question should be: “Why didn’t God hide the corrupt bad women from me, a corrupt good man and give me the corrupt good ones?”

    Cause in the sight God, we’re all corrupt my friend, no matter what we do or how much good we try to practice, we’re all corrupt.

  6. yummy apples

    I like to think of women as apples. why bother climb and try to get the apples at the top of the tree? just wait, and pick them up from the ground.

  7. Claudio

    Hey Truthseeker, it’s me again.

    I’ve read a lot of your articles and I can relate to a lot of the things you say in them. I’m glad when I find someone who’s able to see something of the truth of this world and human behavior.

    So, I was listening to a sermon the other day and, based on the things you usually say in your articles, I think this sermon can answer a lot of you questions about why people are the way they are. Why society is the way it is. Why women (and also men) behave the they do etc.

    Anyway, it’s ok if you don’t listen to it. It’s not gonna make any difference in my life. But who knows it can make a big difference in yours. Cause it’s not about the truth of man, it’s about the truth of God.

    So listen to it closely, think about it and draw your own conclusions.

    The Bible gives us a perfect description of how life in society is and, most importantly, why it is the way it is.

    http://www.mljtrust.org/sermons-online/romans-3-9-20/there-is-none-righteous/

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      Thank you 🙂

  8. Brett

    Ecclesiastes 7:20
    There is not a righeous man on earth who does what is right and never sins.

    Ecclesiastes 7: 28
    While I was still searching
    But not finding
    I found one upright man among a thousand
    But not one upright woman among them all.

    Ecclesiastes 1:18
    For with much wisdom comes much sorrow
    The more knowledge, the more grief.

    Ecclesiastes 12:13
    Now all has been heard, here is the conclusion of the matter
    Fear God and keep his commandments
    For this is the whole duty of man.

    The Word of God :
    Revelations 19:13
    He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

  9. twilightened

    Times have changed people. We gotta admit it. Competition is fierce these days. And it will get worse as human population rises. Even the pandemic couldn’t stop this. All those deaths constitute a very small ration in the grand scheme of things. Nature tries to stop us but we fight back i guess. I think the main problem for most of us is that it is getting harder and harder to live a simple life. If you are someone who can settle for less and want a quiet and simple life, it is harder for you now more than any time in the past. The urban life is like a vacuum. It sucks the life out of you. You have to do everything fast, including the mating, flirting, sexing, everything is like bam bam bam. Nobody has time to spare. People just want to get what they want and get on with their lives. Female culture has shifted immensely. Maybe for the better (for them). I mean they were just an invisible portion of the society. Doing house chores and all. Nothing much. Now they are everywhere. Which is a good thing. But we can’t really see eye to eye with them. That is because they want something and we want something else. Culture is shifting, times are changing. It is not easy to just adapt to it. And that is all about evolution isn’t it? Adapt or die? Yeah it is ugly, but what can you do about it? I am turning 40 this year. The one thing i figured about is to stop figuring out shit. It is useless. Seriously my buddies, just adapt to it and just get what you can get. Complaining and whining is absolutely useless. Nobody cares. You can’t change others. Change yourselves. There is nothing else you can do.

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      It’s true. Searching gets tiresome. Destiny is real.

    2. R0man

      Society in general does nothing to help me, which I’m not asking for, but most times cause prejudice/damage against me.
      So, one of the few certainties I have in this life is that I don’t owe nothing to this people/society. If they make everything difficult for me, than don’t ask for my help when it is needed.

  10. mattsk1

    It seems like this website now became the complain about dating and women site. Guess what! Those Narcists, wealthy, good looking guys that get any women they want are actually really shallow and lonely too because they push everyone away too so those ladies they sleep never really want to have a intentional relationship. Sure they might look like they are having the time of their lives, but the sex, drugs and rock and roll lifestyle is an escape from their misery of hiding the things they are ashamed off. Basically everyone has pain. How you deal with it makes you either a safe person (one who draws healthy people/relationships) or unsafe person (one you draws unhealthy people/relationships).

    1. Truth Seeker Post author

      I agree.

      I plan to cut the dating output. I said all I wanted to say.

  11. brankezz

    The sheer fact that you posed this sort of question speaks volumes about our schizophrenic and hypocritical society.
    We are expected to perceive women only in a highly intellectual, platonic, empowering way yet everything around us is highly sexualized. She walks around half-naked but you should look her in the eyes and refrain from comments because she’s independent ™, empowered ™, liberated ™ etc.
    We are expected to respect boundaries and seek consent yet society, media, and self-help craps insists we should keep grinding, believe and strive for the impossible. No is not an option.
    We are expected to subdue urges, evolutionary mechanisms and kill that toxic masculinity ™ yet society and industry keeps pressing us to cultivate secondary manly traits – beards, physique, martial arts etc. (for profit, of course).
    We need to be gentle, spiritual, educated, understanding, caring, patient, sharply dressed, groomed. But also strong, successful (dollar-wise), able to fight of a pack of wolfs, DIY masters (but just for show, ’cause successful man hires repairman rather than repairs himself, obviously).
    The list of contradictions is long. And it’s all crap.
    Because the bottom line is that all these restrictions and conditions are solely for the masses. For the average brah, the 80-90%. Handsome and rich still enjoy analogue feminism-free world. Moral-immoral…just not their categories. It’s just like capitalism (free-market competition) vs. socialism: the former is a narrative and obligatory modus operandi for the masses, the latter is reserved for very rich, even in democratic societies.
    So again, like with everything in life, your average-to mildly ugly face and a swiss-cheese bank account puts you on a stinky road with uncountable (and growing) number of restriction and warning signs while kids on the other side of the pasture enjoy the Autobahn.

  12. Baron2Duke

    A few days ago I got a link to FFMI calculator where you can calculate your genetic potential:
    https://mennohenselmans.com/ffmi-calculator/

    I am 6,0 1/2 feet at cca 165 lbs. My results were:
    Lean body mass left to gain (kg) 16
    Fat mass left to lose (kg) 1.5
    Maximum natural bodyweight (kg) 88.4
    Normalized FFMI 18.6
    Calves, neck and torso are supposedly over-developed by 5-10%, and upper and lower arms underdeveloped by 5-10%.

    This was pure LoLz. So, it basically means I am able to gain >10 kg of new muscle if I continue with NATURAL bodybuilding, and the gains will go mostly into my biceps/triceps/shoulders? 10 kilos of new muscle in my arms? Sounds like pure gym porn to me. TruthSeeker, may you provide a comment to this? Thx in advance.

  13. Enlightened

    Dude I’ve legit had more success with randomly meeting women on omegle than I have with tinder or irl. U just end up meeting ppl there that r usually so much more interesting esp if u use the interests field.

  14. Devin Young

    God finds you a wife not a girlfriend.

    I repented and became a Christian and met my wife right after. However, this was because I was looking for a wife not someone to fuck who I wasn’t married to.

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